Katalog Hansard

Sir, the Malaysian Government is aware of what is happening as mentioned by the Hon- ourable Member, but the Honourable Member must realise by now that Malaysia and Singapore are two separate and independant countries and whatever is being done by Singa- pore is within her rights. Of course, Malaysia will take the necessary action to advise the Singapore Government if whatever measures taken by Singapore affect the security of Malaysia and the special relations between the two countries. With regard to travels to communist bloc Countries the Malay- sian Government's policy is primarily dictated by the national interests, the need for security and the importance of conquering Communist subversion. At the same time, the Government will have to consider the nation's trading interest and the widening of Malaysia's markets as much as pos- sible. For this reason the Government has imposed a ban against travel to Communist China which is known to be dedicated toward the destruction of the integrity of this nation. On the other hand, there is some flexibility where the Government is convinced that visits, for example, to the Soviet Union or other East European count- ries would bring benefit to the nation as well as to the individuals concerned. In such cases the Government would be prepared not only to allow such visits but even to sponsor them.

Sir, as I have stated in my answer to his original question, it is not the question of ideology. If it is a question of ideology, then we would not have encouraged, or even sponsored trade missions to Russia and other Communist countries in Europe. In the case of China she has made known in clear terms her intention to subvert and to cause the downfall of the present Malaysian Government. I don't know if the Labour Party, if it ever comes to power, probably is prepared to subjugate this country to Communist China! But in our case, as I have said, it is not because of the difference of ideology but because of the clear intention of Communist China to subvert and cause the down- fall of the Alliance Government. And we know that in the case of Commu- nist countries their avowed aim is to conquer and to make use of subversion, and one of the means of subversion is through trade. The Honourable Member himself knows that. So it is for that very reason that we have to be very cautious with Communist China until she subscribe to the precept of co-existence; and not until then will we sponsor trade relations with Communist China.

1. Tuan Abu Bakar bin Hamzah (Bachok) bertanya kapada Menteri Hal Ehwal Luar Negeri, ada-kah Kerajaan sedar bahawa salah faham telah men- jadi² di-kalangan anggota² Kedutaan Malaysia di-Jeddah, Arab Saudi, dan jika sedar, nyatakan langkah² yang akan di-ambil untok membetulkan keadaan.

Tuan Yang di- Pertua, ada-lah menjadi chita² Kera- jaan untok memperluaskan lagi hubo- ngan diplomatik antara Malaysia dengan negara² lain. Persedian² akhir sedang di-buat sekarang ini untok mengadakan perhubongan diplomatik dengan Kuwait, Jordan dan Lebanon.

1. Tuan Ahmad bin Arshad bertanya kapada Menteri Pertahanan ada-kah benar bahawa Kerajaan berura² hendak mengurangkan Tentera British di-Malaysia, dan jika benar, apa-kah yang menyebabkan Kerajaan meng- ambil tindakan itu dan ada-kah lang- kah ini akan menyentoh kedudokan Tentera Australia dan New Zealand di-sini.

1. Tuan Abu Bakar bin Hamzah [S.O. 24 (2)] bertanya kapada Menteri Pembangunan Negara dan Luar Bandar: (a) berapa banyak wang Perbadanan Wang Simpanan Bakal² Haji Malaya yang telah di-keluarkan sa-bagai tanaman modal bagi tiap² tahun semenjak tertuboh- nya Perbadanan ini, dan (b) berapa banyak untong yang telah di-perolehi bagi tiap² tahun yang tersebut; berapa banyak keunto- ngan yang telah di-bahagikan kapada penanam² modal dan berapa ramai dari pada pena- nam² modal itu telah menerima pembahagian keuntongan.

1. Tuan Ahmad bin Arshad bertanya kapada Menteri Hal Ehwal Dalam Negeri ada-kah benar bahawa penun- tut² Sekolah Menengah di-Sarawak dan Sabah telah menyeberangi sempa- dan ka-sabelah Indonesia atau telah menerima latehan perang gerila, dan jika benar: (a) berapa-kah bilangan penuntut² itu dan mereka daripada keluar- ga mana, dan (b) sama ada tindakan sedang di- ambil oleh Kementerian itu untok mengatasi perkara penun- tut² itu di-pengarohi oleh Komi- nis atau anasir² sabersip yang merachun fikiran penuntut² yang mentah.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan tambahan. Dari jumlah penjahat² kominis di-Sarawak yang di-tawan atau di-bunoh, ada-kah kita dapat menge- nali ada di-antara mereka itu penuntut² sekolah menengah bagaimana yang di- katakan oleh Yang Berhormat tadi.

Mr Speaker, Sir, a person alleged to have assaulted a detective police constable in Bachok on 10th April, 1966, will be prosecuted in court on the directions of the Deputy Public Prosecutor, Kelantan. I am unable to relate to this House the events leading to the incident in question, as the matter is sub-judice. No person outside the Police Force has anything to do with the matter of the transfer of Police Officer from one place to another. The matter is the sole concern of the Inspector-General of Police and the Senior Officers charged by him with responsibility in the matter of transfers.

1. Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, Question No. 9. (Long pause).

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am afraid that turnover tax is still in force. It will be recalled that the 1% multi- stage tax, effective from 1st January, 1965, was converted into a 2% single- stage tax from 1st January, 1966. If it is assumed that the Honourable Member is concerned with the high prices of goods in shops despite the modification made to the turnover tax, it should be pointed out that there has been no apparent change in prices as illustrated by statistics on retail price indices. For the year 1964, the average retail price index was 102.4, and for the year 1965, the average index was 102.3. Taking the first four months of 1966, the monthly retail price indices for the month of January, February, March and April were 103.5, 102.6 and 102.7 respectively. All the figures quoted treat 1959 as the base year. It will, therefore, be evident that turn- over tax has not materially affected the prices of essential goods.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I should also mention that one of the changes made was that the tax as from 1st January, 1966, would be levied only on import-that was quite a material change-and I am not sure whether the petrol in question was imported or was refined in this country.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I render my apology for not being here when the Honourable Member asked this question. Sir, I am aware that a complaint was made to the police in January, 1966 about obstruction to public roads caused by hawkers in the vicinity of the Jinjang market place and that the police subsequently took action to clear the public roads of such obstruction. I am satisfied that the police acted within law and had not exceeded their powers. There is no question of persecuting the hawkers. Police action was merely directed at clearing the public roads of obstruction.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as I said, the police are only the executive arm of the Government and of the laws of this country and it is for the police to take action if somebody contravenes the law. It is not for the police to interpret the law that is passed by Parliament or by corporate bodies. So that is the only general answer I could give to the Honourable Member.

I have to look care- fully into this question, Sir, if, for example, what the Honourable Mem- ber suggested could be done, then I think the best way to do it is to appeal to whatever authority that is responsible for the law to change that law to exempt hawkers plying in that part. If the hawkers contravene the law, I am reluctant to go and authorise the police not to take action, because I cannot interfere in this matter. If I were to do that as a Minister, that means I am encouraging the police to make a mockery of the law.

I wish to thank him for that elucidation, Sir, question is that whether the hawkers are in any contravening the ordinary of the coun- try. If the Honourable Member can enlighten me on that, then naturally I would look into the matter. If, for example, all he asks me to do is to advise the Police to be silent and not to execute the law, then I am afraid I have to think very carefully because I am reluctant to encourage any public officers to ignore the law.

I think the Honour- able Member and myself are unfair to one another. In one respect the Honourable Member is very conver- and on the hand I am ignorant of the geography. Now, all I can promise the Honourable Member is to see if these people do not in any way act against the law, then naturally I will advice the Police to leave them alone.

1. Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah (Hilir Perak) bertanya kapada Menteri Pelajaran ada-kah dia sedar bahawa Sekolah Kebangsaan Pekan Labu Kubong dan Sekolah Kebangsaan Kota Setia sangat sempit dan bahawa ban- gunan tambahan bagi kedua² sekolah itu hendak-lah di-bena; jika sedar, bila-kah ini akan di-buat.

1. Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah bertanya kapada Menteri Pelajaran ada-kah dia sedar bahawa Sekolah Kebangsaan Pasir Salak hampir di- runtohkan oleh Sungai Perak, dan bahawa pada masa ini sekolah itu hanya beberapa kaki letak-nya dari tebing sungai. Jika sedar, bila-kah Kerajaan berchadang mendirikan sa- buah sekolah baharu bagi kawasan itu.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the recognition of degrees from institutions of higher learning in foreign countries is now a matter which is receiving the attention of a Special Committee for the evaluation of foreign degrees appointed by the Government.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I consider that for various reasons the time is not yet ripe now for the introduction of compulsory nine-year education for every child in this coun- try. This matter will, however, be reviewed from time to time.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, memang-nya ada kekurangan Pegawai2 Perubatan di-Sarawak, tetapi segala usaha sedang di-tumpukan oleh Kera- jaan Sarawak untok mengambil Pegawai2 Perubatan bagi memenohi kekosongan dalam Jabatan Kesihatan. Tidak-lah boleh di-nafikan yang tangga gaji bagi Pegawai2 Perubatan sekarang ini tidak sa-bagitu tinggi untok me- narek orang2 baharu tetapi perkara ini telah di-bawa kapada perhatian Suro- hanjaya Gaji. Berkenaan dengan kaki-tangan ke- jururawatan, sunggoh pun kedudokan mereka tidak bagitu menarek hati tetapi boleh-lah di-katakan memuaskan dan bilangan jururawat dan Pembantu Rumah Sakit sekarang ada-lah men- chukupit untok menjalankan kerja² di- Rumah Sakit dan gedong² ubat (dis- pensaries) di-seluroh negeri. Dalam beberapa tahun yang lalu telah di- dapati bertambah-nya kemasokan juru- rawat pelateh dan Pembantu Rumah Sakit ka-Sekolah Latehan supaya dapat meneruskan kerja² yang bertambah yang di-sebabkan oleh ranchangan pembenaan baharu di-bawah Ran- changan Pembangunan Malaysia Yang Pertama. Peruntokan telah pun di-buat untok pembenaan Sekolah Latehan yang kedua di-Sibu supaya ranchangan latehan dapat di-segerakan.

Is the Honourable Minister suggesting that a gentleman's agreement can be treated in an ungentlemanly fashion and only written agreements can be treated in a gentlemanly fashion? In any case, I was not suggesting that Malaysia should attempt to colonise the United States; all that I was trying to ask was: why in the first instance did the United States fail? What were the reason? Did the Government attempt to find what the reasons were which prompted the United States Government to decline to consult the Malaysian Government?

The Honour- able Acting Minister of Commerce and Industry has told us that this Govern- ment has not been consulted over the release of stockpile by the G.S.A. On the other hand, the State Department of the U.S.A. has stated in no uncertain terms that they have consulted this Government. Can the Honourable Minister enlighten us which Govern- ment is speaking the truth?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think it constitutes quite a separate question, in respect of which I require notice. But in reply to his supplementary question generally, it is quite true in many countries where industrialisation has just started that the costs of such goods are usually very much higher in the initial period of industrialisation programme and it would require a period of settlement and usually it is a matter of 5 to 7 years. The prices will then settle down to a much lower price commensurate with the prices before the industrialisa- tion programme. There are many reasons to this increase because the cost of production in large-scale production can be quite low as in countries where industrialisation has taken place for a long time, unlike Malaysia, where we started industrialisation only around about 1958. Again, also it is the practice of exporters to subsidise the price of exports while maintaining a fairly high price for the home markets. Here we have a lot of instances where we have found, for instance, I think urea and other fertilisers in producing countries are sold at much higher price than sold in this country when imported to this country. There are many instances. If the Honourable Member requires details of such instances, I will be quite prepared to supply to him with com- parisons of prices prevailing for each commodity in the producing countries which is much higher than the price prevailing in this country to which these goods are exported-i.e., imported into this country. It is quite often that goods are sold very much cheaper to the countries exported than in the very countries where they are produced. Steel, for example, is another commo- dity; it is quite often sold at a very high price in Japan whereas at a low price in this country, although the steel is produced in Japan and sold in Malaysia.

I will try to answer that question, Sir. There has been a lot of rumours of shortage of flour and things like that. But if the Honourable Member will supply me with specific details of each consumer failing to abtain flour rather than general allegation of such nature, I will certainly look into it and, if necessary, relaxation will be made on quota to import flour. I can give that assurance to the House, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I did not say the high price will prevail for five or seven years. I said there will be a period of settlement and normally the high price will probably taper off as we start from the first year towards the fifth or sixth year. The price will taper off and again there is no absolute stoppage of all commo- dities in respect of which industrialisa- tion attempts will be made. On the contrary, there is a Tariff Advisory Board appointed for this matter, and this Board considers all aspects of control, tariff protection, prices and things like that, and this matter is being continuously reviewed by the Tariff Advisory Board. As I have said just now, there is no absolute general stoppage of importation of such com- modities, and it is a matter of imposi- tion of quota. As I said, if the Honour- able Members in this House will supply my Ministry with as much details as possible of shortages and such like complaints, it is up to this Ministry to look into this matter. As I have said earlier, if there is a genuine shortage of such commodities produced in this country, relaxation on the quota will be made.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I did not say the Government is aware. The Government is aware of the High prices prevailing, and I have given my explanation in respect of that. In respect of the shortages, there had been a lot of reports, but my Ministry requires specific instances of such short- ages, and as soon as specific instances of such shortages are received and channelled through my Ministry and analysed, we will definitely look into the question of relaxation of quota to enable more import to be made.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as a result of a protest made by producer governments and the subse- quent consultations between the Natural Rubber Committee, which comprises all the main producers of natural rubber and the United States Government, in London in May this year, the United States Government has given assurances that it will consult producing countries before modifications are made to the stockpile sales programme. The Communist bloc countries have always been and are still buying our rubber. (Questions No. 19 and 20 were not asked as the Honourable Member con- cerned was not present-see Col. 859)

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, negeri² di-Pantai Timor, Kelantan, Trengganu dan Pahang, telah pun ada perundingan bagi maksud pelajaran tata-ra'ayat atau kursus² tata-ra'ayat, lawatan sambil belajar dan peruntokan wang-nya bagi tahun 1966 ini, ia-lah saperti berikut: Kelantan peruntokan daripada Kerajaan Pusat sa-banyak $24,000, Trengganu peruntokan dari- pada Kerajaan Pusat $9,880 peruntokan daripada Kerajaan Negeri $16,000 jumlah $25,800. Pahang peruntokan daripada Kerajaan Negeri sahaja 70,000. Kursus² tata-ra'ayat ini hanya di-adakan di-negeri masing². Lawatan sambil belajar ka-Pantai Barat ada- lah juga di-jalankan oleh Jabatan Penerangan, oleh pendudok² Pantai Timor. Sa-lain daripada itu, pendudok² Pantai² Timor juga di-beri peluang untok menghadhiri kurus tata-ra'ayat di-Pusat Latehan Tata-ra'ayat Negara, Kuala Lumpur. Lawatan sambil belajar keluar negeri itu juga termasok dalam urusan Kementerian ini.

Berkenaan dengan menchukupi atau tidak, juga soalan ini tidak dapat saya jawab di-sini, tetapi apa yang di-beri oleh Kerajaan Pusat kapada Kelantan ia-lah lebeh daripada yang di-beri oleh Kerajaan Pusat kapada Negeri² lain. Kalau Yang Berhormat itu telah mendengar apa yang saya sebutkan tadi, Kerajaan Pusat memberi chuma $9,800 kapada negeri Trengganu, tetapi kapada Kerajaan Negeri Kelantan $24,000.

1. Tuan Hussein bin Sulaiman (Ulu Kelantan) bertanya kapada Menteri Penerangan dan Penyiaran boleh-kah beliau timbangkan atas perkara meng- adakan motobot atau kereta penerangan di-tiap2 daerah di-negeri ini, dan di- satengah² kawasan pendalaman yang menggunakan kenderaan sungai dan darat mithal-nya di-Ulu Kelantan maka kedua2 jenis pengangkutan ini tidak boleh tidak mesti di-adakan, guna menjalankan kerja² Penerangan.

Soalan tambahan, Tuan Yang di- Pertua. Dapat-kah Yang Berhormat Menteri kita itu memberi jaminan bahawa perkara² yang di-janji akan di- berikan itu boleh di-lakukan pada tahun ini juga, sebab dalam kawasan Ulu Kelantan ini kalau lambat sampai perkara² menolong penerangan² ini harus PAS membaik di-sana dan kachau pula Ahli Yang Berhormat itu (Ketawa).

The primary function of Information De- part ment Field Officers is to bring Government and people into closer and more effective contact. It is their task to explain Government policies and actions to the people and to organise civics courses and assemblies so that the people may better under- stand how their Government works. They also help to provide district news but this is secondary to their other functions. It is not considered practicable to provide all Field Officers with cameras and to train them in their use. The Honourable Member will appreciate that with twenty districts and an approved strength of 60 Field Officers in Sarawak it would be quite un- manageable to have all Field Officers taking photographs and sending them to Headquarters. The Department has full time photographers who provide photographic coverage of important events. Their work is supplemented by photographs taken by Assistant Press Officers. Tape recorders are not pro- vided for Field Officers nor are they qualified or trained to make recordings for broadcasting.

Filem Negara Films including news film are already being regularly sent to the 27 theatres in the rural and urban areas of Sarawak. Because of the shortage of funds only one copy in Malay, one in English and one in Chinese are sent for circulation among the theatres. In 1965, 63 films were released to these theatres for screening and 23 films were released so far this year. In addition, the Mobile Cinema Units of the Information Department, Sarawak, are also screening Filem Negara Films regularly in the rural areas.

The Ministry of Agriculture is always aware of benefits arising from the rehabilitation and improvement of padi lands whether such lands are in the East Coast or West Coast. A very good example of the rehabilitation of padi lands in Kelantan was the improve- ment of acid padi lands in Bachok, Tumpat and Pasir Puteh under the lime subsidy scheme carried out in the Second Five-Year Development Plan. Before lime was applied to the padi lands no crop was produced. After liming a definite harvest was obtained. With regard to the Pergau Valley of Ulu Kelantan the Department of Agriculture has been helping the padi planters in the area to improve their padi lands. In addition many of the First Malaysia Plan projects have also been introduced to the small- holders in the area.

1. Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah bertanya kapada Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama ada-kah dia sedar bahawa Kilang Padi Kerajaan di-Telok Anson tidak dapat melayani hasil padi dengan memuaskan di- Sungai Manek dan Labu Kubong. Jika sedar, ada-kah Kerajaan berse- tuju mendirikan sa-buah gudang di- dalam kawasan itu dan bila-kah Lembaga Pemasaran Pertanian Perse- kutuan akan mengambil langkah itu.

Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota Bharu, atau pun mengikut Ahli Kelantan Hilir, Ahli daripada Pasir Puteh, tidak tahu mana satu yang betul, telah bertanya ada-kah pehak Malaysia mengenepikan cha- dangan Maphilindo yang telah di- persetujukan di-Manila untok Malay- sia, Indonesia dan Filipina. Saya suka menerangkan di-sini bahawa konsep Maphilindo telah di-lahirkan supaya negara anggota persatuan itu bekerja- sama untok faedah bersama sambil menghormati kemerdekaan dan ke- daulatan antara satu sama lain. Sa- lepas terbentok-nya Malaysia, oleh kerana Filipina dan Indonesia tidak meng'itirafkan kita, maka chadangan Maphilindo itu pun telah selesai, buat sekarang ini tidak guna lagi kita menuleh ka-belakang atas perkara ini. Walau bagaimana pun, Malaysia sentiasa berpegang kapada konsep bekerjasama dengan negara lain di- Tenggara Asia dalam semua lapangan untok kema'moran dan ketenteraman wilayah ini. Malaysia akan bersetuju menjadi anggota kapada persatuan yang sa-demikian di-bawah apa nama sahaja, baik nama-nya ASA atau lain nama. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Johor Tenggara, Kota Bharu atau pun Pasir Puteh dan Kuala Kangsar, barangkali juga ahli yang lain telah menyentoh hal uchapan Enche' Ramani bangsa Bersatu yang menyebabkan, kata mereka, perpisahan Malaysia dengan Pakistan. Sa-lain daripada itu ahli tersebut telah menchela peribadi dan nama baik Enche' Ramani. Sa-balek-nya Kerajaan Perikatan berpuas hati dengan kerja dan perkhidmatan Enche' Ramani dan saya suka membela bahawa tudohan terhadap Enche' Ramani itu tidak berasas. Perkara yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat ada-lah perkara lama dan Kerajaan telah pun mene- rangkan hal ini dengan panjang lebar dalam meshuarat yang lalu di-Dewan ini. Jadi tidak payah-lah saya mene- rangkan lagi atas hal ini. Banyak ahli yang lain telah menyambut baik atas tindakan yang baru ini untok menguatkan sa-mula ASA dan sa- tengah-nya menchadangkan supaya banyak lagi negara di-jemput untok menjadi ahli Persatuan ASA ini. Ini ada-lah pendapat Kerajaan Malaysia dari mula-nya lagi apabila chadangan Persatuan ini telah di-lahirkan. Dengan tindakan yang sedang di-jalankan, dapat-lah Kesatuan ini menunjokkan kapada negara lain beberapa faedah sekarang bahawa negara Tenggara Asia bekerjasama lebeh rapat antara satu sama lain dan dengan demikian negara lain akan masok menjadi ahli Persatuan ini dengan tidak payah di- jemput lagi. Saperti Ahli Yang Ber- hormat terma'alum, tujuan ASA ia- lah untok keuntongan bersama bagi tiap negara anggota, oleh itu apa tindakan dan ranchangan yang di- jalankan oleh Persatuan itu ada-lah untok hasil bersama bagi negara anggota sama ada ranchangan ini untok mengadakan satu ASA, di- wilayah economic research atau pun ranchangan lain. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh atau pun Kota Bharu telah juga menyatakan bahawa Kerajaan Malay- sia tidak ada dasar yang tegas dan tertentu terhadap Israel. Saya suka menjawab bahawa Kerajaan ini me- mang ada dasar yang tertentu terhadap Israel. Dalam Dewan ini juga pehak Kerajaan telah menerangkan pendirian dan dasar Malaysia terhadap Israel dan tidak payah lagi saya menyebut- kan dasar itu oleh kerana Ahli Yang Berhormat semua sudah pun terma- 'alum. Harga paspot untok bakal Haji pergi ka-Mekah yang berharga $20 itu ada-lah termasok bayaran untok semua kenangan yang lain yang di- sediakan untok bakal haji itu dan bukan-lah sa-mata untok harga paspot itu sahaja. Dengan mengenakan harga sa-banyak $20 itu maka dapat-lah pehak Kerajaan mengadakan lebeh banyak lagi kemudahan saperti rawa- tan dan perubatan dan lain kemuda- han yang menyebabkan Kerajaan membelanjakan banyak lagi daripada jumlah yang di-pungut dari bayaran $20 dari tiap bakal haji itu. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pada semua Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah beruchap dalam Dewan ini berkenaan dengan Kementerian Hal Ehwal Luar Negeri, saya menguchapkan berbanyak terima kaseh, dan jikalau saya tidak dapat memberi ulasan atau jawapan yang puas hati, saya uchapkan juga banyak terima kaseh dan memberi sanggupan bahawa segala ulasan dan chadangan mereka itu akan di-beri perhatian oleh Kementerian saya. Now Sir, I stand up in another role of that of the Minister of Home Affairs. Sir, in the debate on the King's speech, the Honourable Mem- ber for Ipoh mentioned the Abdul Rahman's case in respect of which public funds were spent and asked that in view of what was said about collective responsibility would it not be collective responsibility for Cabinet to resign? Sir, as I have stated in the House, the Alliance Government had given a great many reasons why it thought it fit that public funds should be spent on the Rahman Talib case, but it certainly never said that it was on the ground of collective responsi- bility. Any Minister who fails in any way to live up to his responsibility of being a Minister must himself resign, and the Cabinet as a whole will only resign on any collective responsibility issue which fails to command majority support in the House. The Honourable Member for Ipoh asks why is it that one always read of policemen being corrupt and what is the Anti-Corruption Agency doing about the big fish: a Commission of Enquiry was established for Seremban and the Penang Port Authority, but why is it that a Commission of Enquiry for Members of this House is not instituted. Sir, I cannot accept the Honourable Member's contention that one always read of policemen being corrupt, because corruption is not the monopoly of the Police. In fact, if statistics on corruption is taken on all sections of the community, I believe the incidence of corruption is very low in the Police. As to his question on what is the Anti-Corruption Agency doing about the big fish, my answer is that unless the Agency adopts totalitarian method, which I am sure the Honourable Member would be the first to deplore then there is very little it could do under the present set-up without public co-operation. However, a Committee of the Cabinet under my chairmanship to review the whole set-up of the Agency with a view to make it more effective is now sitting and we will see what new methods which we should adopt, in order to make these anti-corruption measures more effective; and if those measures are painful to the Honourable Member for Ipoh, or Menglembu, I hope he will not howl in this House. The Honourable Member for Ipoh also said that this country does not practise democracy and cited as an example that the Internal Security Act is being used against individuals to curb their freedom and liberty. He also said that the Government is not upholding the United Nations Charter in maintaining the rights and liberties of individuals. He requested the Government to review the Internal Security Act, so that those detained could be tried in court. Now, Sir, this question of whether this country is practising democracy or not is a constant theme whenever this House meets. All I can say is that the record of the Alliance Government in these cases is clear for all to see. It is clear that the Honourable Member for Ipoh and his learned brother from Meng- lembu and other Members of the Opposition would not have been in this House, if we do not practise parliamentary democracy in this country. They definitely will be under detention and not only will they be not allowed to speak but they will not even be allowed to go to the customary joints or to whatever places of enter- tainment they would like to go to. Now, Sir, the Honourable for Ipoh keeps on harping that our Internal Security Act is totally different from the Internal Security Act, or similar legislations as are in India and other countries. Sir, I would like, for example, to bring to the attention of the Honourable Member and also to this House Article 22 of the Indian Constitution, which provides that persons arrested and detained should be brought before a court and if charged shall have the right to be defended by a lawyer of his own choice,-and I would like to emphasise this-but it also says that Clause does not apply (a) to any person who for the time being is an enemy alien, or (b) to any person who is arrested or detained under any law providing for preventive detention. Now, Sir, the Preventive Detention Act of 1950 of India provides that if a person is to be detained for more than three months, he is to be brought before an Advisory Board of Inquiry. Under the Indian Constitution, Parliament has power to legislate about preventive detention for reasons connected with defence, foreign affairs, security of State, the maintenance of public order and maintenance of supplies and services essential to the community. I would like to remind the Honourable Member for Ipoh that under the Indian Constitution in the chapter dealing with fundamental rights, article 22 envisages legislation in res- pect of preventive detention in normal times. The power of Parlia- ment to legislate on preventive detention is very wide and the only limitation is that, if a person is to be detained for more than three months, it has to be enquired into or reviewed by an Advisory Board but not by a court. Some detainees in India took the matter to the court on the ground that either the order made by the Minister is not made in good faith, or is not a valid order. But the court is not entitled to go into the merits of the order of detention and see whether there is reasonable cause for passing such an order. I take India, Sir, as an example because it is a country which practises parliamentary democracy and which strongly advo- cates the rule of law. If the Honourable Member for Ipoh were to examine the laws of the other countries relating to detention with trials in Court, I am sure he will think twice before criticising our Internal Security Act, which has the approval of the majority of the electorate, and which is the safeguard of our nation and democratic form of parliamentary government and our personal liberty. The Internal Security Act is not to limit liberty but as I have always said to safeguard and enlarge our freedom. Then the Honourable Member for Ipoh mentioned that many Members- I presume Members of Parliament- had received letters from parents of detainees from the Borneo States and he said that some detainees were found to be insane or died. He has asked why should that be so and were they tortured. Sir, I have always said in this House that no detainees are tortured while under detention, because that mode of investigation is obsolete. As far as I am aware, the two detainees whose cases have been raised in this House by the Honourable Member for Batu, one concerns a detainee by the name of Hew Seng Lin who died soon after arrival in Kuching after having been flown from Batu Gajah. As I have explained, this detainee had been suffering from a stomach ailment for about twenty years, and he died from a cause not directly attributable to his detention. Secondly, another detainee by the name of Lim Ah Hiang of Sibu, who was brought to the Batu Gajah Deten- tion Camp on 12th October, 1964, because of his active participation in the Sarawak Clandestine Communist Organisation. He appeared ill on 10th January, 1966, and was immediately treated at the Batu Gajah Hospital, and later transferred to the Mental Hospital Tanjong Rambutan for obser- vation. The consultant psychiatrist at the Mental Hospital, Tanjong Rambu- tan, reported that he was not insane but was suffering from mental depres- sion, and on the recommendation of the psychiatrist he was released from detention unconditionally on the 16th March, 1966. The Honourable Member for Ipoh says that at present no public meeting is allowed in public places due to confrontation, but such meeting is per- mitted during election time and he asks whether the Minister would con- sider lifting the ban since confronta- tion has already ended. Sir, the ban on public meetings was imposed in public places not due to the confrontation alone, but also because of the efforts of the Communist United Front Organisation to exploit such occasions. In view of this, I do not consider that, at present, it is desirable to lift the ban on public meetings in public places, although confrontation might be con- sidered as over. The Honourable Member for Kuala Trengganu Selatan said that there are elements within the country trying to play on racial differences when the country's relation with Indonesia is getting better. Actions should be taken to amend the Internal Security Act, so that such people can be dealt with. Sir, I would like to inform this House that there is a already such provision in the Internal Security Act to deal with persons who act in a manner prejudicial to the security of Malaysia. That this provision has not been inter- preted too literally, I think, is a credit not only to myself but to the Alliance Government. The Honourable Member for Melaka Selatan said that Government should consider releasing Enche' Abdul Hadi because the Member feels that he is no longer a security risk. Sir, in accor- dance with the Internal security law, cases of persons detained under the Internal Security Act are reviewed periodically by an independent Advi- sory Board chaired by an ex-judge and two independent members of the public. If this independent advisory Board, after reviewing a detainees' case, considers that a detainee is no longer a threat to the security of Malaysia, it would make a recommen- dation for his release to me. There- fore, when the Advisory Board makes a recommendation after reviewing Hadi's case, I will give due considera- tion to it. Sir, the Honourable Member for Kota Star Selatan said that with regard to newspapers-in particular, the Straits Times there is a group where the majority of the shareholders are not citizens of this country and that their policies do not conform to national aspirations. He said action should be taken to break the mono- poly in this newspaper business. Sir, although this is not actually an issue that I should reply in toto but since the control of publications comes under my Ministry, I would like to say a few words by way of reply. Sir, the Straits Times Group as a business concern, like all other big businesses in this country, I am sure will take heed if it has not done so already, of the Honourable Member's speech in regard to the point of larger local participation not only from the point of view of shareholding but also con- trolling interest in the Group. Having said that, Sir, I am not so sure that even after the majority of shareholders and controlling interest are in the hand of citizens, we can make it conform to national interest in the sense that national interest at the moment is interpreted differently by different people, especially by different political parties, in this House. The only sure way to make newspapers conform to national interest is to nationalise them. This method is not acceptable to the Alliance Government, because we believe as always in the freedom of the press.

Saya beberapa kali telah berchakap kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat hendak-lah kita menghor- mat sadikit Rumah yang mulia ini, jikalau dengar angin dari kedai kopi, itu tinggalkan di-kedai kopi sahaja. Kalau Ahli Yang Berhormat suka hendak berbual di-kedai kopi berbual- lah di-kedai kopi, tetapi ura yang di-dengar di-kedai kopi jangan-lah di- bawa ka-dalam Rumah yang Berhor- mat ini, jikalau tidak dapat tahu dengan tegas-nya, ia-itu ada satu alasan. The Honourable Member for Kota Star Selatan also, when touching on corruption, stated that in view of the fact that under the present laws the evidence adduced from baited traps are inadmissible to the court, although the effect of such a matter would have a salutary effect on those concerned, there is a need for change in the present law on graft. As Honourable Members know, special Cabinet Com- mittee has been set up to review the functions of the Anti-Corruption Agency, and this fact suggested by the Honourable Member will be borne in mind, if it is found by the Committee to be not inconsistent with democratic practice. The Honourable Member for Bung- sar has stated that with the changing situation towards peace, no mention has been made in the King's Speech regarding the shape and direction of internal policy after the end of con- frontation. He referred in particular to the restrictive laws and regulations, which were introduced in the name of security against Indonesian confronta- tion and said that indication is made in the speech when such laws or regu- lations would be repealed. I would like to say that the Internal Security Laws were promulgated, among other things, to prevent the threat of com- munist subversion, and as long as such threat exists it would be premature to repeal them. But, having said that, I am however constantly bearing in mind which laws and regulations can be repealed. The Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh suggested that a bigger Royal Commission of Inquiry be instituted to assess the extent of success of failure of parliamentary democracy as is practised today. Atas melantek satu Surohanjaya ini supaya mentaksirkan ada-kah demo- krasi di-jalankan dalam negeri ini atau tidak, saya fikir Ahli daripada Pasir Puteh, dalam soal ini, tentu lebeh tahu di-mana-kah dalam Malaysia ini yang betul menjalankan demokrasi atau pun tidak, tidak payah di-adakan Surohanjaya. Kita tahu apa yang telah terjadi di-negeri Kelantan, jadi kita hendak menyelamatkan mereka itu-lah yang kita ini enggan sadikit melantek satu Jawatan-kuasa supaya mentaksir demokrasi yang ada berjalan dalam negeri ini. Satu lagi atas soal demokrasi ini nampak-nya dalam masa atomic age ini, semua-nya menggunakan perkataan demokrasi. Negeri Communist panggil negeri-nya Peoples Democracy, Kelan- tan pun mengatakan dia berjalan dengan chara demokrasi juga, jadi chorak demokrasi ini bertukar dengan fahaman tiap parti. Jadi tidak siapa yang boleh mentaksirkan melainkan orang ramai. Yang menjadi satu anggota supaya mentaksirkan ada-kah demokrasi di-jalankan dalam negeri ini di-bawah panduan Perikatan, ada-lah bila pilehan raya di-adakan. Itu-lah hakim yang besar sa-kali (Tepok). Oleh sebab Parti Perikatan telah menang banyak kerusi dalam Parli- men, ini menunjokkan yang hakim besar orang ramai bersetuju dengan demokrasi berjalan dalam negeri Malaysia ini (Tepok). Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Pasir Puteh telah merayu ia-itu sekarang konfrantasi, kata berakhir, patut-lah orang yang di-tahan itu di-lepaskan dan sharat2 yang di-kenakan kapada mereka yang telah di-lepaskan itu hendak-lah di-tarek balek. Kemudian dia telah memberi satu lagi chontoh ia-itu ia-lah Dr Burhanuddin. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Dr Burhanud- din ini di-lepaskan ia-lah sa-lepas Ahli daripada Pasir Puteh menyembah pada Tunku Perdana Menteri, mengatakan yang Dr Burhanuddin ini telah sakit kuat dan boleh jadi akan meninggal dunia, tidak boleh membuat apa lagi dalam negeri. Jadi, Tunku Yang Berhormat ini, dengan belas ikhsan, memerentahkan saya, jika perlu, di- lepaskan dia dan kita telah mengkaji dan mengikut saksi daripada Menteri Besar Kelantan, kita fikir betul-lah Dr Burhanuddin itu telah sakit kuat dan tidak lama lagi akan meninggal. dunia dan kita lepaskan dia dengan sharat. Sekarang ini apa-kala telah di-lepas- kan dia, dia sudah puleh sa-mula, hendak meminta lepaskan sharat ini. Saya akan memikirkan sa-mula sama ada sharat itu di-masokkan atau tidak atau pun jangan hendak di-tarek balek sharat yang telah di-kenakan kapada dia itu. Kita melepaskan dia dengan chara belas ikhsan kerana dia telah sakit. Kalau di-pandang dari segi security dia tidak patut di-lepaskan. The Honourable Khoo Peng Loong and several other members, especially the Member for Dato Kramat, con- sider the action that we have taken in asking Dato' Kalong Ningkan to relinquish the Chief Ministership of Sarawak as interfering in the affairs of the Sarawak Government. I have already stated our stand very clearly in Sarawak and have broadcast it to the people of Sarawak and have also made it clear by issuing a press state- ment to the local press, and so I will not weary this House by going over the grounds again. The Honourable Member for Jerai has made a very long speech in regard to corruption, and I do not propose to reply to him, as I am sure that the Honourable Acting Prime Minister and other Ministers will reply to him. All I can say is that it is regrettable that the non-Alliance back-benchers who made allegations of corruption should think it fit not to co-operate with the Government by giving details to the Anti-Corruption Agency. Finally, Sir, there is this plea for Enche' Ramli Omar of Krian Darat that people like the Member for Bungsar trying to subvert the ra'ayat should have kept their mouths shut (Tutup mulut-nya dengan chara yang halus). We always say that the Alliance Government believes in democracy and the right of the people to voice their opinions within the confines of our Constitution; and so long as mem- bers of the public and Honourable Members adhere to this, they should have no fear that they will be arrested on grounds of subversion.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya akan mengambil bahagian sadikit sahaja memberi pen- jelasan atas perkara terhadap Kemen- terian saya, terutama sa-kali wakil dari Sitiawan yang membawa usul, chadangan yang di-bahathkan ini, membayangkan berkenaan dengan Undang Insurance terhadap penung- gang motorsikal konon-nya Insurance Company hanya berjanji kapada penunggang motorsikal itu sahaja tidak-lah kapada orang lain, sa-kari- nya motorsikal itu di-pinjamkan kapada orang lain dan berlanggaran atau melanggar orang. Maka Insu- ance Company tidak bertanggong- jawab. Perkara sa-macham ini tentu- lah boleh di-tentukan dengan Insurance Company, kerana perkara ini atas per- setujuan antara orang yang punya motorsikal dengan Insurance Com- pany. Walau macham mana pun saya uchapkan berbanyak terima kaseh. Saya sedang berunding dengan Pesuroh Jaya Pengangkutan saya, supaya me- nyemak perkara Insurance bukan sahaja berkenaan dengan motorsikal tetapi juga berkenaan kenderaan yang lain. Yang kedua-nya, Yang Berhormat Wakil daripada Johor Bharu Timor telah membawa pandangan berkenaan dengan teksi sekolah, konon-nya, teksi sekolah kena bayar lebeh chukai-nya daripada teksi yang betul. Barangkali bayangan yang di-bawa-nya itu, ia-lah banyangan daripada banyak teksi sapu atau teksi yang ta' ada kebenaran, selalu-nya menggunakan kereta disel 190D. Maka 190D, kereta disel ini c.c. kuasa jentera-nya besar. Maka chukai- nya itu banyak, kerana sudah di-tukar daripada horsepower-kuasa kuda ka- pada C.C. kira chukai atas kuasa jentera. Maka, kereta pakai pun kalau 190D memang membayar lebeh chukai-nya mahal daripada sewa pun, tetapi yang di-tujukan oleh Kerajaan menolong kapada orang yang membawa teksi yang ta' berkebenaran membawa budak sekolah ini supaya di-beri kebenaran. Maka mereka apabila menggunakan kereta pakai, kena-lah bayar chukai mengikut besar kechil kuasa jentera-nya. Maka saya nasihat- kan mereka yang hendak membawa budak sekolah, teksi sekolah ini tukar- lah kereta yang jentera kuasa besar itu kapada yang jentera-nya kechil, umpama-nya kereta yang 700 c.c., satu c.c. 10 sen ma'ana $70 sahaja dalam sa-tahun. Tidak mesti dia menggunakan disel 190D yang berharga sampai $13,000.

Toyopet ada 700 c.c. (Ketawa). Kalau ta' tahu chuba tanya dahulu. Banyak lagi yang lain. Maka saya harap-lah pehak rombongan yang dari Johor itu telah pun berjumpa dengan Pesuroh Jaya Kenderaan dan telah di-terang- kan, di-jelaskan, dan saya faham mereka itu telah faham dan mereka akan mengambil kebenaran itu. Dan chukai yang sa-benar-nya Kerajaan mengenakan ini, bukan fasal hendak dapat banyak hasil, chuma hendak menjalankan kuat kuasa undang. Chukai-nya hanya $3 sa-buah kereta sa-bulan kerana membawa budak sekolah, sa-lain daripada chukai kereta pakai-ia boleh pakai kereta itu sen- diri, ia kena bayar lagi berapa banyak mengikut besar kuasa jentera kereta- nya. Berkenaan dengan Insurance-nya, ini hendak mengamankan anak buah kita, budak sekolah yang naik kereta teksi yang maseh ta' ada Insurance. Jika tidak ada insurance kalau ada kemalangan ta' ada satu apa benda chagaran-nya. Maka, ini pun kita telah berunding dengan pehak Insurance biasa. Sa-buah kereta hanya dalam $70, $80 atau $90 sahaja insuran-nya lebeh kurang 25% kurang daripada biasa. Maka, saya harap-lah pehak yang hendak memohon kebenaran ini sa- kira-nya tidak faham boleh-lah ber- hubong dengan Pendaftar Kenderaan di-dalam tiap buah negeri supaya di- beri penjelasan yang penoh. Tetapi saya ta' hendak-lah teksi sapu ini ber- selindong di-bawah teksi bawa budak sekolah, kerana nampak daripada rayuan mereka, mereka tidak mahu di-taroh tanda kereta teksi sekolah di- pintu-nya-konon-nya malu. Maka per- kara malu ta' timbul. Kita hendak menyenangkan pehak polis dan hendak mengamankan juga budak yang hendak naik kereta sekolah ini. Dan saya menyeru-lah kapada mereka yang berkenaan supaya dapat berunding lebeh lagi tetapi tidak-lah mendatang- kan chabaran, konon-nya sa-buah bas yang besar chuma $70 sahaja sa-tahun, kemudian-nya kereta kechil kena bayar lebeh. Beza-nya bas hanya boleh bawa budak sekolah sahaja dan mengikut jalan yang biasa di-lalu oleh bas itu dan satu batu di-kira satu bulan kalau ta' salah sa-ringgit sa-bulan satu batu dua cents. Maka ini kereta sekolah, teksi sekolah ini tidak kita hadkan tambang-nya dan dia boleh-lah ber- tentu berapa yang patut. Dan dia boleh di-gunakan pada waktu tidak bawa budak sekolah, kerana bawa pakai sendiri sahaja tidak bawa orang lain, kalau di-dapati bawa orang de- wasa lain tentu-lah salah. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-lain dari- pada itu, saya suka juga berchakap berkenaan dengan chadangan yang di- bawa oleh wakil Yang Berhormat dari Bukit Bintang berkenaan dengan ship- ping-perkapalan dan ASA. Yang sa- benar-nya Kementerian saya bersama dengan Kementerian Perdagangan sudah pun mengadakan sa-buah Jawatan-kuasa mengena shipping ini dan sekarang maseh lagi dalam perun- dingan tidak-lah lagi habis. Apa chadangan yang hendak di-buat oleh Kerajaan kena-lah menunggu peng- akuan Jawatan-kuasa ini. Berkenaan dengan ASA, kerana Manila telah sekarang berhubong balek diplomatik dengan kita, Jawatan-kuasa yang berkenaan bukan sahaja berkenaan kapal tetapi perjalanan kapal ter- bang dan lain lagi, sedang berun- ding dan saya suka menerangkan kapada pehak Yang Berhormat di- sini, pehak perkhidmatan kapal ter- bang Malaysia Airways, akan memu- lakan penerbangan-nya. Sunggoh pun belum lagi dari Kuala Lumpur, dari Singapura ka-Manila mula 2 haribulan Julai ini. Ini satu langkah kita hendak menghubongkan Negeri ASA yang sa- lama ini kita memang ada perhubongan ka-Bangkok dan kita akan mulakan hubongan pula ka-Philipina. Berkenaan Yang Berhormat wakil Jerai membawa tudohan berkenaan Pejabat Pengangkutan, ada sa-tengah Enforcement Officer-nya, motokar-nya Jaguar Mark 10 yang besar bagitu, bagini, tetapi saya harap-lah bukan sahaja Yang Berhormat daripada pehak wakil Jerai ini, tetapi Yang Berhormat yang lain dan orang ramai tiap kali saya memberi penerangan merayu supaya bekerjasama memberi keterang- an kalau ada berhubong dengan Pejabat Rasuah atau Pejabat Pesuroh- jaya Kenderaan, atau kapada saya sendiri supaya kami dapat menjalankan ikhtiar menghapuskan, kalau tidak sa- kali gus, dengan chara beransor siapa yang tidak di-ingini bukan sahaja dalam Kementerian Pengangkutan, tetapi di-mana Pejabat Kerajaan, kerana Kerajaan Perikatan memang tidak suka bahkan benchikan perbua- tan sa-macham ini, tetapi kalau orang ramai tidak mahu bekerjasama, tidak memberi hubongan dan keterangan tentu-lah susah kita hendak menjalan- kan siasatan. Yang akhir sa-kali, berkenaan dengan pertanyaan berkenaan dengan keretapi yang keluar daripada landasan dan jawapan saya dan ada juga di-terbit- kan daripada pehak Persekutuan Bekerja Keretapi yang telah pun di- terangkan dan hari ini juga dalam berita pengarang surat khabar Inggeris mengatakan Rails Safety. Keselamatan Keretapi kita ini, tidak bagitu baik dan bagitu bagini. Saya suka hendak menghapuskan kekeliruan orang ramai terutama sa-kali mereka yang meng- gunakan keretapi. Perkhidmatan Kere- tapi Malaya, dan Kementerian saya, sedia menchari jalan dan ikhtiar macham mana membaiki berkenaan dengan keamanan dan kebaikan per- jalanan keretapi ini, terutama sa-kali keretapi yang membawa barang2 yang sampai bagitu panjang dan sekarang ini kita menggunakan locomotive yang kuat, sampai 1,500 kuasa kuda sebab itu kadang tergelinchir tetapi walau macham mana pun saya memberi pe- ngakuan kapada Rumah ini, kapada orang ramai yang menggunakan kere- tapi, saya telah berunding dengan Pengurus Besar, dan Pengurus Besar telah beritahu supaya Ketua Pejabat yang berkenaan supaya mengadakan sa-buah Jawatan-kuasa daripada satu masa ka-satu masa bermuafakat dan menyelideki perkara ini dan mengam- bil berat lagi daripada hari ini ka-masa ka-hadapan dan kita harap bekerja keretapi, walau daripada apa tingkat- nya, akan dapat membahagi kerjasama- nya yang penoh supaya mengelakkan daripada kemalangan ini kerana ini merugikan bukan sahaja orang yang punya barang tetapi merugikan negara. Oleh kerana itu saya harap-lah bagi pehak pemberita akhbar dapat mem- beri penerangan yang jelas kapada orang ramai perkhidmatan keretapi dan Kementerian Pengangkutan sedia bekerjasama sedia akan menyiasat, sedia akan membaiki perkhidmatan keretapi daripada satu masa ka-satu masa untok keselamatan dan kesena- ngan orang ramai. Terima kaseh.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya minta penjelasan daripada Menteri kita. Saya tertarek dengan legal point yang di-beri oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri ini tidak berkenaan dengan masaalah Sarawak itu, ia-itu menentu- kan Ketua Menteri itu tidak mendapat keperchayaan majority tidak mesti dengan undi di-dalam Council; tetapi Menteri kita juga menerangkan bahawa di-antara Ahli yang di-pileh di-dalam Alliance terdapat 21 orang menyatakan kapada Governor bahawa mereka itu tidak lagi memberi keper- chayaan kapada Ketua Menteri. Jadi, ada-kah ini berma'ana bahawa mem- ber2 yang di-pileh di-dalam Council itu boleh membuat undi di-luar Council menentukan nasib Council itu sendiri; itu yang saya hendak tanya. Erti-nya Ketua Menteri itu ceases to command the confidence of a majority of the Council dengan tidak payah voting di- dalam Council, tetapi angka yang mengatakan 21 itu memberikan kenya- taan kapada Governor tidak Perchaya kapada Ketua Menteri, di-mana angka ini boleh dapat 21 voting itu berlaku dalam Council atau di-luar. Jika di-luar Council ada-kah Ahli yang di-pileh ini boleh membuat voting menentukan nasib Council di-luar Council?

Tetapi masaalah-nya, 21 orang yang mewakili Ahli yang ramai menyatakan kapada Governor di-luar Council; mengapa-kah Ahli yang 21 orang ini tidak menyatakan 'No Confidence' di- dalam Council itu, saya hendak bertanya, itu mengapa?

I do agree on that point; but what I want to know is-If the law is silent we have to have a certain criterion to decide that-how can we know that the Chief Minister ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members in the Council without voting? (Interruption).

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would first like to make a few observa- tions on the remarks of some of the Honourable Members from this side of the House regarding my Ministry and the Essential Regulations concerning trade disputes in essential services. The Honourable Member for Bungsar also touched on this. Sir, I would like to state that these regulations were not promulgated as a bolt from the blue. They were enac- ted after considerable thought, taking into account the trends and activities in the field of industrial relations and the need to ensuring that these do not seriously prejudice the national interest and the goals of national development especially during the period of emer- gency. The Regulations were not promulgated to suppress the rights or interests of either employers or wor- kers. They were enacted to ensure that, in the exercise of these rights, they did not disregard the national and public interests. These Regulations have been so implemented that no one party took advantage of the measures contained in them, and that their main intent is not lost sight of. The question has been asked by the Honourable Member for Bungsar as to what happens to these Regulations when the emergency is over. The straight answer to this, Sir, is that these are essential Regulations which by themselves have validity only during the existence of an emergency. However, Sir, these Regulations have given us valuable experience in the operation of our system of industrial relations. The existence and use of these Regulations have averted the need for damaging and wasteful industrial action to settle issues which cannot be settled by the parties to the dispute themselves. Disputes have been settled amicably on the basis of equity and merits of the issues concerned, and not on the prepon- derance of sheer strength of one party or the other. The operation of these Regulation has also, I think, laid the basis for sound labour management practices and atmosphere in some important sectors of the country's economy, especially where the workers faced difficulties as a result of their relatively weak posi- tion. Certain issues which previously proved difficult of solution are now being settled on the basis of sound principles and justice-I refer, espe- cially, to such questions as union recognition and termination of employ- ment for various reasons. There has been substituted for the use of rigid managerial rights, pressure and brute force, the intervention of a third party who could settle issues on the substan- tial merits of the case. Sir, the experience that we have gained in the operation of these regula- tions has, therefore, been a valuable one, though limited only to essential services and industries. The working of these Regulations, the direction and intensity of growth of the labour situa- tion today, and the increasing need to ensure the sustained growth and stabi- lity of the nation have pointed most definitely to the need to review our system of industrial relations itself. We have to examine our present system and practices and the Regulations to see if certain of the features of these Regulations cannot usefully be incor- porated into the basic industrial rela- tions legislation and practice. I have stated this intention of the Government both here in this House and outside. In fact, my Ministry had, as early as in 1963, submitted proposal to the National Joint Labour Advisory Council to review the completely volun- tary system of industrial relations, as it was seen that this system could be used to further the advantage of the party which was suitably located and which had the resources and strength without any regard to the intrinsic merits of the issues themselves. The council had discussed this matter on a number of occasions to consider ways and means of meeting the increasingly complex problems arising in the field of labour management relations. I propose to have this matter discussed again in the Council, with a view to formulating adequate procedures and principles for the settlement of trade disputes. I am sure that if our rights are firmly set on safeguarding the various vital interests involved in the conduct of labour management rela- tions, that is the national interest and the legitimate interest of both workers and employers, then there would emerge a large measure of agreement on the issues involved. I can assure this House and employers and trade union movement that it is not the Government's intention to ignore their respective legitimate interests, and that the Government would endeavour to formulate measures which will protect and, in fact, promote these respective interests, while at the same time safe- guarding the interests of the nation and the public for which the Government has prime responsibility. The Honourable Member for Bung- sar stated that the trade union move- ment should realise that their salvation lies in their plunging headlong into the political arena, as the present Government is alleged to be hostile and unsympathetic to their existence and needs. Both the diagnosis of the situation and the treatment suggested are the Honourable Member's own, and I do not think that the trade union movement itself accepts them. The record of this Government is there for all of us to see. Though we may not have had the ideal partnership with a movement, our relationship has by and large been cordial and fruitful. This is because, as a Government, we have not endeavoured to run the affairs of the trade union movement and have been receptive to the needs of workers and their movement. Where legisla- tion was required to protect and promote the interests of workers, we have not hesitated to do so. The last parliamentary session alone is proof of this. His Majesty's Speech and Appendix to it clearly lays out the further measures that are planned, and I do not think that this record is anything to be ashamed of. We have meant well and done well for our workers, and will continue to do so. The movement itself continues to enjoy the respect and confidence of the Government, and I have no doubt that this will continue to be so. We do not play politics with our trade union, and we do not gag or muzzle our trade unionist. Trade unions here enjoy a degree of freedom, which is rare even in nearby surrounding countries (Applause) and trade unions have not hesitated to criticize and attack the Government when they felt that this was necessary both here and abroad. Their voice is also heard constructively in many boards and committees, where workers interests are involved. The growth of trade unions has always been encouraged by this Government. All these, the trade unions enjoy today because of the Alliance Government. They have been permitted to function with freedom and forcefulness. This includes the possibility of trade unionists participating in politics. I might point out, Sir, here, that this is not the first time that Bungsar Ward has produced a politician who is also a trade unionist, or at least aspires to the leadership in the movement.

Well, anyway, that is the impression he gives and I am entitled to my opinion, Sir. With all this freedom, trade unions here have refrained from direct poli- tical participation and have resolutely defended the movement from succum- bing to the wiles of politicians, who are straining to get a strangle-hold on the movement. Trade unions here have decided on their own that political participation spells disaster for the movement itself. This decision of theirs, I think, is amply supported by both the turbulent experience that the movement had here in the days of the first Emergency and the experience of nearby countries where trade unions have found that running with the politi- cian serves only the politician's interests. The Honourable Member for Kota Star Selatan referred to the difficulties of trade union formation and activities in the cinema industry. I am aware, Sir, that trade unions have not had too successful a career in the cinema indus- try. For various reasons, attempts at forming effective unions in the industry have not met with much success, though there are one or two small unions now existing. Conditions of work too, are not entirely satisfactory. It is for this reason that I have estab- lished a Commission of Enquiry under the Wages Council's Ordinance to inquire into the question whether a Wages Council should be established there. The Commission has completed its work and I expect to receive its report very soon. I can assure this House that I am especially concerned about the workers in the cinema indus- try and will do all I can to improve their lot. Sir, some Honourable Members in this House have been concerned about the image of Malaysia abroad, espe- cially in the Afro-Asian bloc. Much has already been said about this, and I would merely like to add that Malaysia today enjoys the highest res- pect and confidence of the countries of Africa and Asia. (Applause). This has been demonstrated both during the visits of Malaysians to these country and in the attitude of these countries to Malaysia in international affairs and bodies. As mentioned earlier by the Honourable Minister of Home Affairs, there is the considerable goodwill from these countries towards Malaysia, and this is based on the fact that we here share the goals and aspirations of the peoples of these countries to raise the dignity and standard of living of the ordinary man and give him a decent life. Our plans for economic and rural development, and especially the Opera- tions Room set up, are being spoken of in many of these countries and great interest has been expressed in our approach and technique of develop- ment. Our Prime Minister is held in the highest regard in these countries for his honest and forthright stand in the battle for human right and dignity. Our Deputy Prime Minister is held in the high esteem for his sobre and dedicated approach to the questions of rural and economic development and national management problems. As in all things no doubt we could do more to enhance the image of Malaysia and perhaps even contribute in much greater measure in our international activity. We have been modest and sincere in our approach to both national and international questions, and this has paid, and will continue to pay, high dividend. Some of the directions of approach to this are highlighted in His Majesty's Gracious Speech, and I am sure that with our leadership and with the support and co-operation of our people, we will continue to enjoy peace and stability at home and respect in goodwill from others.

20, I am sure that most, if not all, readers will agree with the sentiments and views expressed therein. History cannot be denied. The part played by UMNO in securing independence and in welding unity among the people is well-known. The speech of the Prime Minister, who is also UMNO leader, is of paramount interest to everyone. For this reason, the text of his anniversary speech was printed in full in the paper. I am perturbed to hear charges of corruption in my Ministry by the Honourable Member for Jerai. Since the day I assumed office as Minister, I have been taking a personal interest in the affairs of my Ministry and of the departments in my portfolio, and I am satisfied with the manner in which my officers are discharging their duties. However, in view of the Honourable Member for Jerai's observation, I assure him that if he would make specific charges, an immediate inquiry will be instituted to look into them. Thank you, Sir (Applause).

Mr Speaker, Sir, this morning I men- tioned an event which took place in the coffee lounge some time last December in connection with an allegation of corruption against offi- cials in the Department of Mines by the Honourable Member for Jerai. As a result of this allegation, Mr Speaker, Sir, I asked the Secretary to the Minis- try of Lands and Mines to write on the 18th of December-the following day after the allegation was made-to the Director, Anti-Corruption Agency, and on the 28th of January, 1966 I received his reply, and among other things, it says: "Bahawa saya telah dapati Yang Berhormat Enche' Hanafiah bin Hussain tidak menge- tahu dengan jelas-nya di-atas tudohan rasuah terhadap permohonan tersebut, sebab menurut kata-nya, beliau ada mendengar sungutan daripada orang2 awam dan ia-nya tidak dapat memberi butir² yang terang terhadap tudohan itu. Dengan hal demikian perkara ini tidak-lah mungkin di-siasat dengan tidak ada kerjasama." The point that I would like to make here, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that after having said that he had in his posses- sion proofs to show that certain officers were corrupt, when the Anti- corruption Agency started to investi- gate and asked for his co-operation, that was the answer given by the Honourable Member. I urge upon Members of this Honourable House, Mr Speaker, Sir

Mr Speaker, Sir, I did follow up by immediately asking the Anti-Corruption Agency to carry out this investigation. The Honourable Member has stated that he heard from people, that people had told him, that corruption did exist in connection with the issue of a cer- tain licence for a specific area. I said just now that I would not like to men- tion it here, because this thing has, perhaps, not ended just there. There- fore, the least that he could have done was to tell the Anti-corruption Agency the names of all those people who had told him that there was corruption with regard to the granting of the licence, but from the information that I got from the Anti-Corruption Agency, he had not done that and therefore

Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya suka hendak mengulas perbahasan di-atas uchapan di-Raja dan menjawab beberapa pandangan yang telah di-datangkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat terhadap dasar kerajaan yang terkandong dalam uchapan itu. Mr Speaker, Sir, my colleagues on this side of this House have already replied to a number of criticisms made by Honourable Members and it is only left for me to reply to those matters which have not been covered by my other colleagues. Sir, I would like, first of all, to say that the Government is very grateful to the Members of this House who have shown their understanding and support for the policy of the Govern- ment, of our sincere determination to bring peace to this country, to carry out a bold, imaginative, economic policy to give our people, particularly the "have-nots" of all races, whether they be in the town or in the rural areas, a better and higher standard of living and a fair and new deal so that they will have a rightful place not only in our country, but a rightful place among civilised nations of the world. It has been said, Sir, that the debate on the Royal Address, such as we are having now, is an inquest of the nation and of the country. Indeed, it is a clear evidence of our sincere belief in parliamentary democracy that once a year we provide this opportunity to Members of this House who are representatives of the people to deliberate fairly and fully on all aspects of Government policies. Some Honourable Members, particularly those on this side of the House have made many valuable suggestions, but, as usual, from the opposite benches we still hear the same old records being played time and time again. Now, Sir, the Honourable Member for Ipoh talked about collective res- ponsibility of the Cabinet. He said that if a member of the cabinet has been found to do something improper, then the whole Cabinet should resign. I am afraid, Sir, that either the Honourable Member does not understand what collective responsibility means, or he is deliberately trying to confuse the House and the public. Sir, collective responsibility means that the whole Cabinet is responsible for formulating the policies of the country and if the policies are not accepted by Parliament or by the country, then clearly the whole Cabinet must resign. In the implementation of those policies, each Minister is responsible to do so on his own and if a Minister, in carrying out those policies has been found to be doing so short of the highest level of integrity and honesty which is expected of a Minister, then the Minister alone must resign as did happen in the case of the Honourable Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Talib. It will be different, Sir, if matters of major policy formu- lated by a Minister of the Cabinet and that policy is voted against in this House or by some other means, it is clearly shown that the majority of the people of the country are against that policy, then it is the duty of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet to tender their resignation to the King. This is, Sir, where collective responsibility begins and where it ends. Now, this continuous insinuation that we in the Alliance have not been following true parliamentary democracy does not hold water, because everyone in this country and, indeed, all those who have been following the progress of our country know that the Alliance Government have been following the principles and practice of parliamentary democracy faithfully and sincerely. Indeed, the only criticism or real criticism as I have stated before in this House that we in the Government have had is that perhaps we sometimes have been too democratic. Now, Sir, a number of Honourable Members spoke about the Civil Service and a number of my colleagues here have already replied to the various criticisms raised by the Honourable Members. But the Honourable Mem- ber for Ipoh alleged that there is dis- satisfaction in the Civil Service and that non-Malay members of the Civil Service are not getting a square deal. He said that promotion is being blocked because there are no Malays to fill the quota in the legal Service and in the Civil Service. This allega- tion, Sir, is completely untrue, because under our Constitution, all members of the Public Service must be treated equally whatever their racial origin may be. It is true that there is a quota in the entry or admission to the Legal and Civil Services, but once officers have been admitted into the Civil Service they are treated equally, fairly and justly. Now, the Honourable Member also said that the Public Service is corrupt because the condi- tions of service are unsatisfactory and that their salaries are unsatisfactory. Sir, it has been the policy of the Alliance Government to endeavour to give a fair deal to members of the Public Service, particularly the lower income group, within the limit of our resources. We have from time to time reviewed the salary scheme of the Public Service and now a Salaries Commission, pre- sided by a Judge of the High Court, is sitting to consider the salary schemes and conditions of service for the whole of the Public Service. Therefore, it is not right nor is it fair to allege that there is general dissatisfaction in the Public Service. Our Public Service, Sir, as has been stated, Sir, has served our country extremely well during these difficult years of early independence. We in the Alliance Government are proud of our Civil Service, which we have always stated can be regarded as second to none in this part of the world. The Civil Service had to adapt itself to the changes brought about by indepen- dence and then had to implement Government policy of carrying out economic development in order to pro- duce quick and tangible results. Our Public Service, in the whole, has done extremely well. However, as I per- sonally stated on many occasions, there is still room for improvement. There is still the necessity to stream- line further our Civil Service SO that it will meet the needs of an independent country, of a young progressive nation. We in this country, Sir, knew only one type of Civil Service, i.e. the Colonial system of Civil Service and this type of Civil Service is no longer suited to our present condition as an indepen- dent sovereign nation. Therefore, changes are necessary and, as we have explained to this House, Government has taken steps to effect these changes. I can confidently state that when these changes have been made, we will be able to have a Civil Service which will be completely streamlined, able to stand the stress and strain of a young and dynamic nation, and able to serve the needs and aspirations of our people. Some Honourable Members, parti- cularly the Honourable Member for Ipoh, said that there is rampant corruption in the Civil Service. My colleagues have already adequately replied to this. It is true, Sir, that there is a certain amount of corruption, but it is by no means rampant. It has been the policy of this Government to try and stamp out corruption by every means possible. That is why we have appointed a Ministerial Committee under the chairmanship of my colle- ague, the Minister of Home Affairs, to review our anti-corruption measures, so that we will have far more effective measures to deal with corrupt practices and to eradicate these practices com- pletely. However, I would like to say that it will not be possible to stamp out corruption completely in the Public Service unless members of the public are prepared to co-operate. I would like therefore to appeal to members of the public to give every assistance and co-operation to the Government in its drive to eradicate this disease of corruption. Sir, it is indeed strange that Mem- bers of the Opposition should have thought fit to criticise the Public Service and at the same time oppose Govern- ment measures to streamline the Public Services. The Government's proposal to transfer the powers of discipline from the Public Services Commission to senior Heads of Department is with the objective of streamlining the Public Service, to stamp out corrupt practices. With the disciplinary powers in the hands of senior civil servants, they will have effective means in their hands to supervise the work of their sub- ordinates, to see that they carry out their work efficiently and expeditiously and economically, and also at the same time to see that they would not indulge in corrupt and undesirable practices. Sir, the Member for Ipoh also alleged that the Government in assisting the less fortunate of our people-the bumi- putras, the Malays-is doing so to the detriment of the other races in this country. Sir, it has always been the policy of this Government to be just and fair to all sections of our people. We are determined to help the less fortunate of our people, particularly the bumiputras and the Malays, but we are doing so not at the expense of the other races. Whatever help we give to the less fortunate of our people will not take away the rights and privileges of other races. This has been our inten- tion, our policy, and we have clearly demonstrated in all these eleven years that the Alliance Government has been in power in this country. Sir, on matters of foreign policy my colleague, the acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, has adequately replied to all the points raised by the Mem- bers of the Opposition. Members of the Opposition said that our foreign poli- cies have not been independent nor have they been non-aligned. Sir, I would like to say that we have always carried out an independent foreign policy and always stated that the cardinal principle of our foreign policy is that we desire to be a friend of all friendly countries, irrespective of what- ever system of government they may have. We believe, Sir, that it is just and right for any government to choose its own system of government and its way of life, provided that that country does not interfere with the internal affairs of another country or the inde- pendence and integrity of other coun- tries. Malaysia will therefore be a friend of any country that respects the independence and integrity of another country. As a small nation, we want to live in peace with everyone. We want to co-operate with every country for mutual benefit. Last year I had the privilege to visit a number of countries in Africa and in the Middle East, and during the course of my tour I assured leaders of those countries that it is our policy and our desire to work together with all peace-loving countries. Therefore in the Royal Address it is clearly stated that we intend to be friend with as many countries as possible. We are not against any government or its ideology. We are only against any country which has expressed its policy which either directly or indirectly tend to interfere with the affairs of other countries. This is our foreign policy, Sir. We adhere to this policy faithfully. My colleague, the Minister of Labour, who has just returned from a tour of Africa, told this House that Malaysia is held in high esteem by countries in Africa. Sir, I would like to take this oppor- tunity to add to the words in the King's Speech that we in this country look forward with great pleasure to the prospect of peace with our great neighbour, Indonesia. We also welcome with a sense of real pleasure that our other neighbour, the Philippines, has now decided to resume diplomatic relations with us. We, therefore, look forward to working closely together with the Philippines in reactivating together with Thailand, ASA., in making it a real success as a regional co-operation. We in the Government have always believed in living in peace and friendship with our neighbours. The Honourable Member for Batu said that it was the Labour Party which suggested that we should make peace with Indonesia. I would like to say that we in the Alliance have always wanted peace and indeed, we agreed to meet President Soekarno and his colleagues several times in order to find grounds for agreement, so that Indonesia and Malaysia could live in peace. We found that there was no meeting of minds and that it was impossible to make peace. However, the moment there was a change of government in Indonesia and there was a prospect of a change of attitude towards Malaysia, we deci- ded to have contact with the new government in order to find out the possibility of having talks to bring these two countries, our close neigh- bours, who have so many ties with us, to come together to work in co-opera- tion and friendship and to end confron- tation which has brought no one any good, neither to the Indonesians nor to ourselves. Mr Speaker, Sir, we lost no time in doing this because of our desire to live in peace. The moment we saw there was a basis for formal negotiations we immediately agree to have formal talks. It is only by doing this, by careful approach, by showing sincerity and goodwill that we were able to talk in a friendly manner and able to reach accord in Bangkok. I would like to say here that I am very grateful, and the Government of Malay- sia is very grateful, to the Indonesian leaders-to General Suharto and to Dr Adam Malik, the Indonesian Foreign Minister. It was due to Dr Adam Malik's sincerity and frank- ness that we were able to reach com- plete agreement in Bangkok. There was, Mr Speaker, Sir, no vagueness in this accord in Bangkok. The only thing is that we are in no position yet to make the agreement public as we must wait for the approval by the Govern- ment of Indonesia before we can make it public. We stated in our communique that we had agreed on the principles on which our two countries could nor- malise relations and work together in co-operation and friendship. The only thing is that we are as yet in no posi- tion to make known these principles, although we on our part, the Govern- ment of Malaysia, has endorsed prin- ciples and I sincerely hope and pray that soon our friends in Indonesia will be able to give their approval to the Agreement in Bangkok. (Applause). Sir, the fact that we were able to come together so suddenly and to be able to talk in a friendly and cordial manner has surprised the whole world. Indonesia agreed to send a military mission while confrontation has not officially ended to show their sincere desire for peace and to bring goodwill and friendship to us. It was the arrival of this mission that paved the way for the successful conclusion of the Bangkok Talks. We have shown to the whole world how two neighbouring countries could settle their differences in their own way and, as I have said, in an Asian way, and I do hope that we will be able to resolve all our problems in the future in the same way in a truly neighbouring and brotherly spirit. Sir, it is a matter of regret for us, as has been explained by some Honour- able Members, that our approach- ment with Indonesia has caused uneasiness in a certain section of the non-Malays in this country. I can assure the House and those who may entertain this feeling that there is no cause at all for this uneasiness. Indeed, there are people who have been spread- ing this mischievous rumour solely with the object of creating suspicion and sissension among the various com- munities in this country in order to upset the goodwill and harmony of our people of various races. All of us who have the interest and welfare and the loyalty of this country at heart would like to see peace in this region. Confrontation has brought no benefit to anyone. On the other hand, it has brought hardship, difficulties and suffer- ings to the people of both countries. Now, with the restoration of peace everyone will benefit. The Government will benefit in the reduction of defence expenditure; business people will bene- fit because of the prospect of resump- tion of trade with Indonesia; and others also will benefit. It is only those who have no loyalty to the country, or whose loyalty lies outside this country, or those who want to see chaos and disturbance in this country do not want to see peace restored. There- fore, Sir, I would like to ask Honour- able Members to do whatever they can to try and counter this malicious rumour. Now, Sir, some Honourable Members advocated that we should endeavour to have close and friendly relations with Singapore. My colleagues have already spoken on this matter. I should like to assure the House that it has been the wish of this Government since that regretful day of separation with Singapore, to work in close co-opera- tion with the Singapore Government for the benefit of our two people. But the actions and the utterance of the leaders of Singapore Government since separation made it impossible to achieve this objective, to achieve this understanding and co-operation. Singa- pore is now an independent and sovereign nation, and the leaders of Singapore must learn to appreciate that they should not interfere, directly or indirectly, with the affairs of Malaysia. (Applause). The affairs of Malaysia and of its people must be the sole responsibility of the citizens of Malaysia. Unless this is clearly under- stood and up-held, not only in words but in practice and in deeds, it would not be possible to have that trust or confidence between the two Govern- ments of Malaysia and Singapore- trust and confidence which are essential if the two Government and two coun- tries are to work together in co- operation in so many fields for their mutual benefit. I can assure this House that we in the Malaysian Government would not be found wanting in our endeavour and our efforts to bring about understanding and co-operation with Singapore. Sir, I would like to say a few words about what some Members called the crisis in Sarawak. I would like to say, Sir, that there is no such thing as crisis. What happened in Sarawak recently is entirely an internal matter for the Alliance Party. The Alliance Party is the governing Party in Sarawak today. It is, therefore, within the right of the top leadership of the Alliance to change the leaders in Sarawak, the Ministers or the Chief Minister. The majority group of the Alliance Mem- bers of the Council Negeri have indicated that they have no confidence in the present Chief Minister and have asked that he be changed. We, the leaders of the Alliance, the Malaysian Alliance Executive Council, after due consideration, have decided that it was in the interests of the country and of the Alliance Party, that the leader of the Government of Sarawak should be changed. Surely, it is within our right to do so, to change the leader of the Government in a State which is governed by our own Party. The differences in the Sarawak Alliance, as I said are internal matters and it is for us to resolve these differences, as we have done. Sir, again, on the question of our relationship with Britain, my Honour- able colleagues have already spoken on this, but the Honourable Members of the Opposition-the Honourable Member for Ipoh, the Member for Batu, and the Member for Bungsar- saw fit to criticise this Government for its decision to readjust its attitude towards Britain in view of the fact that Britain has now decided not to give further defence aid to Malaysia, as she, a few months ago had positively promised to do SO. Sir, it is clear, as has been stated by British Ministers that Britain is reviewing its policy and its commitments East of Suez. There- fore it is right and proper that in the light of this that we in Malaysia should also review our policy and our rela- tions towards Britain, because, as an independent nation, we must look after our own interests and our own survival: (Applause). Our policy should be to be friendly with any country that is pre- pared to be friendly with us, to show kindness to any country that is prepared to be kind with us and assist us. A country cannot expect to merely draw benefit from our country and at the same time is not prepared to return to assist us in a small way. (Applause). Sir, as has been explained by my colleague, the Minister of Finance, we are a young nation in its early years of independence; now particularly with the addition of Sabah and Sarawak, we have much bigger commitments both in defence and in economic development. We have to spend a bit more in the economic development of Sabah and Sarawak than we can expect to get in return from those two States, and this state of affairs, as has been explained, is a legacy of the British colonial rule, and, therefore, it is only fair that in this early stage that Britain should assist us so that we will be able to meet our commitments in Sabah and Sarawak. Sir, the Honourable Member for Bungsar still play the old record that we have so often heard from him and his former colleagues in this House, that the Alliance Government has not done anything to redress the economic disparity in the nation, and he deli- berately refuses to see the enormous progress that Malaysia has made in the field of development, particularly rural development. Now, Sir, there is no need for me to speak on the success of our rural development programme in this House, as many hundreds and thousands of projects in all parts of our country speak for themselves: There is no need for the Honourable Member to remind us of our respon- sibility, because we know our responsibility, and we knew this long before the Honourable Member came to sit in this House. (Applause). The Honourable Member also said that as confrontation is now over, the country is going to have less and less democracy. The Honourable Member should ask himself what sort of democracy the Party which is ruling the country south of the Causeway, from which he draws his inspiration, is practising there. (Hear! hear!) (Applause). Sir, I think the Honourable Member from Kuala Trengganu Selatan sugges- ted that a Ministry of Economic Affairs be established to handle and finance the First Malaysia Plan and to ensure effective planning and implementation of the projects. I should like to explain, Sir, that these tasks are already being under- taken by the Economic Planning Unit in co-operation with the Treasury and other Ministries concerned. Also we have the National Development and Planning Committee consisting of the various Ministries concerned in plan- ning and development and this Com- mittee and the Economic Planning Unit are responsible for national planning and for co-ordinating its implementa- tion. The Economic Planning Unit is being expanded. Therefore, there is no necessity for creating a new Ministry of Economic Affairs. Sir, the Honourable Member for Batu suggested that with the ending of confrontation, we should consi- derably reduce our defence expendi- ture. No doubt, with the end of confrontation our defence expenditure will be reduced, but I must explain to the House that with the ending of confrontation the British and Common- wealth troops in Sabah and Sarawak must leave Sabah and Sarawak. This will mean that the task of maintaining law and order and of looking after the security of those areas will fall completely in our hands, our Police and Military. As there is still a strong, hard-core of Communist territories in Sarawak, which poses a serious threat to our security, it is therefore, necessary for us to continue operations in these areas against these territories, and it is necessary to look after the security of that long stretch of border from Sabah and Sarawak. We do hope that it will be possible to have co-operation with our friends, Indonesia, to patrol and look after those borders. Indeed, we have never planned for a big expansion of our Armed Forces. We have only planned for sufficient Armed Forces to look after our security, to guard our coast lines and to deal with minor infiltra- tions. As a small nation, we can never have enough forces to defend our- selves against external aggression. Therefore, despite the ending of confrontation the expansion of our Armed Forces must continue, although at a less accelerated rate. This is why we continue to need assistance from our friends in the expansion of our Armed Forces so that we will be able to stand on our own feet for the defence of our independence and our integrity. Sir, I am grateful to the Members of this House for having accepted Government's policy on education and language, two very sensitive and controversial issues, with patience and with tolerance. On these two issues, the Alliance Government have always endeavoured to approach objectively and with fairness and justice, to all sections of our population. Ever since we formulated the education policy of 1956, we have always borne in mind our main objective, that is, to bring our people of various races together and strengthen their har- mony, so that ultimately we shall be able to build a strong and united nation out of the people of diverse racial origins. We have also stated that while it is our policy to make Malay the national language, it is also our policy to preserve and sustain the growth of other languages. That is why in approaching these two impor- tant issues, we always do it with patience and with tolerance. The Honourable Member for Batu has alleged that I stated that the solution of this trouble is found in the Consti- tution of our country. Sir, the Hon'ble Member has misquoted me. What I have said is, "we will stand by the words of our Constitution on", which was carefully worded after long and careful consideration. I again reiterate that we will uphold the letter and the spirit of the Constitution, that is, while making Malay our national language and the sole official language, the teaching, study and use of other languages will be preserved and sustained. That is why, Sir, I said that we on the Government bench have always appealed to our people that in carrying out this policy, we must do it with tact, with understanding and with tolerance, so that our people of various races will always realise and appreciate that we are always fair to all sections of our community. It has never been our policy nor our intention to suppress any section of our community, but rather to allow them all to go forward together in peace, harmony and friend- ship. This has been our policy and will continue to be our policy, and we are confident that given the goodwill, the understanding and the support of our people of various races, the Alliance Government will be able to achieve our ultimate goal of establishing a strong and united nation from our people of various races. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka hendak menjawab, terutama sa-kali kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh. Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ada menyebutkan bahawa patut-lah di-tubohkan Surohanjaya untok meng- kaji system democracy berparlimen yang kita amalkan di-negeri ini, sebab kata-nya system democracy berparlimen yang telah di-jalankan di-negeri ini mengikut keadaan negeri barat dan tentu-lah tidak sesuai dengan keadaan di-negeri kita. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sendiri faham bahawa mustahak system democracy berparlimen yang kita amalkan di-negeri ini di-sesuaikan dengan keadaan peribadi negara kita ini, akan tetapi chara hendak mense- suaikan perkara ini mustahak-lah di- jalankan dengan beransor mengikut pengalaman kita dan ini bukan-lah perkara yang boleh di-jalankan oleh satu Surohanjaya. Perkara ini mus- tahak-lah kita perbaiki dari satu masa ka-satu masa mengikut pengalaman kita, mengikut keadaan dan kebolehan kita. Ahli Yang Berhorinat dari Pasir Puteh itu juga menyebutkan bahawa sunggoh pun Singapura telah berpisah dari Malaysia dan tujuan perpisahan itu ia-lah hendak mengurangkan segala masaalah di-antara dua negeri itu, akan tetapi kata-nya sunggoh pun Singapura telah berpisah dari Malay- sia, tetapi masaalah itu maseh lagi ada. Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saperti saya katakan tadi, sunggoh pun Singapura telah berpisah dari Malaysia, tetapi Singapura sa-buah negara yang sangat dekat- dengan Malaysia dan ta' dapat tiada ada masaalah yang ber- kaitan di-antara dua negeri itu yang mustahak di-selesaikan dengan kerja- sama dan sa-fahaman yang baik di- antara kerajaan dua negara itu. Jadi, sa-hingga kita dapat mengadakan per- sefahaman dan kerjasama yang baik di-antara dua negara itu, maka ta' dapat tiada masaalah yang tertentu akan timbul. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sekarang saya suka-lah hendak menjawab uchapan Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Jerai. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya berasa dukachita dan berasa sedeh mendengar butir² uchapan yang di-datangkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu yang mengatakan dalam 10 tahun ini Kerajaan tidak ada membuat apa pun perubahan kapada ra'ayat yang dudok kampong dan di-luar bandar dan Ranchangan Luar Bandar yang di- jalankan oleh Kerajaan itu ia-lah umpama-nya sa-bagai memberi pisang kapada anak yang menangis sahaja. Jadi, uchapan ini saya katakan sangat mendukachitakan dan yang menyedeh- kan saya, sebab Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Jerai itu dahulu-nya bekerja di- Kementerian Pembangunan Luar Ban- dar, bekerja di-bawah saya sendiri dan selalu mendapat fahaman dari- pada saya sendiri bagaimana hendak menjalankan dasar pembangunan negara dan luar bandar dan pada masa itu Ahli Yang Berhormat itu menyo- kong di-atas dasar pembangunan negara dan luar bandar. Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, nampak-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat ini ada-lah mem- benarkan fikiran-nya melayang dengan tiada had-nya dan membenarkan sentiment-nya melayang mengikut ke- hendak sentiments itu. Jadi, sunggoh pun Ahli Yang Berhormat itu telah membetulkan sadikit uchapan-nya ini, akan tetapi uchapan ini ada-lah rekod Parlimen ini dan ta' dapat tiada akan menjadi ingatan bagi Dewan ini dan terpaksa saya menjawab uchapan-nya itu. Saya kata saya berasa sedeh, sebab bukan sahaja Ahli Yang Berhormat itu dahulu bekerja dengan Kementerian Pembangunan Luar Bandar, bahkan semenjak Ahli Yang Berhormat itu menjadi Wakil Ra'ayat, menjadi Wakil dari Jerai, Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ada mempunyai perhubongan yang rapat dengan Kementerian Pem- bangunan Luar Bandar, dan dia sendiri tahu apa yang berlaku, apa yang berjalan hari di-Kementerian Pembangunan Luar Bandar. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pada tahun yang lalu pehak Kerajaan telah pun mengadakan kongres iktisad dengan tujuan hendak mendapat lebeh faham- an dan juga chadangan daripada pehak ra'ayat berkenaan dengan dasar dan chara Kerajaan patut melaksana- kan dasar bagi memberi peluang yang lebeh luas, yang lebeh sempurna, kapada ra'ayat di-luar bandar untok mengambil bahagian di-lapangan ekonomi dan perniagaan dan untok meninggikan taraf hidup mereka. Dalam kongres ini pun Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri ada mengambil bahagian yang penting dalam kertas meshuarat yang di-binchangkan dalam kongres itu. Jadi, nyata-lah Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tegoran yang di-buat ini, yang saya kata terkeluar daripada batas, patut sa-benar-nya di-hadapkan pada dia sendiri kerana dia-lah yang mengator dan menjalankan sa-tengah dasar yang di-jalankan oleh Kerajaan dalam ranchangan Pembangunan Luar Bandar. Bagitu juga, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, satu daripada ranchangan yang besar yang kita sedang jalankan dan akan di-jalankan dalam beberapa tahun yang akan datang ia-lah hendak meno- long ra'ayat di-luar bandar supaya dapat membesar dan meluaskan mata pencharian mereka dan satu daripada badan mempunyai tugas yang penting dalam lapangan ini ia-lah badan FAMA atau pun badan Pasaran yang di-ketua oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri. Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tentu-lah tidak patut sangat hendak menyatakan yang Kerajaan tidak membuat apa juga perubahan dalam lima tahun dan segala usaha itu macham hendak memberi pisang kapada budak yang menangis. Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya katakan tadi FAMA ini satu badan yang mustahak, Ahli Yang Berhormat jadi ketua-nya, jadi jakalau-lah badan ini ta' menjalankan usaha yang di- kehendaki, kalau ra'ayat kampong dapati yang badan yang di-harapkan menolong ra'ayat kelak tidak dapat memuaskan kehendaki, hasrat ra'ayat, apa kelak ra'ayat akan mengatakan kapada badan ini dan kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat. Jadi, ini-lah perkara yang saya kata, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita kena fikir sadikit ka-dalam sa-belum kita mem- buat uchapan. Dalam uchapan di-Raja ada di-sebutkan bahawa Kerajaan Perikatan, bukan sahaja berjanji bah- kan menunaikan janji, pehak Perika- tan tidak pernah berchakap lebeh, tidak pernah berjanji melainkan kita tunaikan semua janji. Orang yang berchakap yang ta' tunaikan janji hanya daripada ahli pembangkang sahaja (Tepok). Jadi, tentu-lah tidak sesuai bagi pehak Kerajaan atau menyokong Kerajaan berchakap saperti menyokong pembangkang (Ketawa). Jadi, itu-lah Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya berharap Dewan ini faham bahawa uchapan Ahli Yang Berhormat yang sangat mendukachita dan menyedehkan saya itu saya fikir tidak-lah berasas dan tidak siapa yang boleh menidakkan bahawa ran- changan Pembangunan Luar Bandar Kerajaan Perikatan pada masa lima tahun, enam tahun yang lalu, telah mendapat kejayaan yang sangat me- muaskan hati. Tetapi banyak lagi perkara yang di-kehendaki oleh ra'ayat yang belum kita laksanakan, tetapi perkara itu mengambil masa tidak dapat tiada kita akan jalankan daripada satu masa saperti saya selalu sebutkan. Saya dapat peluang melawat boleh katakan banyak negeri yang baru menchapai kemerdekaan saperti Malaysia ini, tetapi tidak ada satu negeri yang telah berjaya menjalankan Ranchangan Pembangunan saperti kita di-Malaysia ini dan chara atau teknik yang kita menjalankan Ran- changan Pembangunan ada-lah men- jadi chontoh tauladan kapada negara lain. Jadi apa lagi yang kita kehendaki, saya pun tidak faham. Jadi, itu-lah saya berharap Ahli Yang Berhormat dan juga ra'ayat negeri ini faham bahawa uchapan ini ada-lah saya kata terlebeh sadikit daripada yang patut dan Ahli Yang Berhormat sendiri telah pun memberi penerangan di-atas uchapan-nya itu. Saya harap Ahli Dewan ini dan ra'ayat luar negeri tidak silap faham di-atas hal ini dan dia sendiri saya fikir tentu menyesal di-atas uchapan ini (Ketawa) kerana dia sendiri ber- tanggong-jawab di-atas menjalankan ranchangan yang penting dan musta- hak dalam lapangan Pembangunan Luar Bandar ia-itu mengadakan kemudahan pasaran kapada padang dan juga nelayan di-seluroh negara kita. Ini dua daripada puak yang dudok di-luar bandar yang sa-benar- nya berkehendakkan pertolongan dan pertolongan ini ada-lah bergantong kapada F.A.M.A. yang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Jerai sendiri menjadi Pengerusi-nya. Jadi, saya boleh-lah serahkan balek uchapan ini kapada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat supaya dalam masa dia men- jalankan tugas-nya sa-bagai Pengerusi F.A.M.A. dapat-lah dia barangkali menimbangkan dengan lebeh halus, dengan keadaan yang lebeh sempurna dan bersasuaian. Jadi, Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya tidak payah-lah panjang- kan lagi perkara itu dan saya sa-kali lagi uchapkan terima kaseh kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah menyokong dasar yang terkandong dalam Uchapan di-Raja dan bagi pehak Kerajaan mengaku akan men- jalankan segala dasar yang tertulis dalam Uchapan di-Raja itu bagi tahun 1966 ini dan saya berharap dengan kerjasama daripada semua pehak Ahli2 Dewan ini dan juga pegawai Kera- jaan dari semua peringkat kita akan dapat menjalankan segala Ranchangan Pembangunan yang kita telah atorkan itu dengan sempurna dengan jaya-nya. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sakian terima kaseh (Tepok). The Minister of Local Government and Housing and Acting Minister of Commerce and Industry (Tuan Khaw Kai-Boh): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to speak again in quite a different capacity, this time as the Minister for Commerce and Industry, as during the current session I am wearing 3 caps- as Minister for Local Government and Housing; Commerce and Industry; and Sabah Affairs and Civil Defence. So it is in quite a different capacity that I am speaking now, Sir. I wish to reply to certain criticisms levelled during the debate at the Commerce and Industry Ministry by the Honourable Member for Jerai. Now, I would like to state, Sir, that prior to the transfer of the Malay Secretariat to MARA in January, 1966, the Ministry of Commerce and In- dustry in its efforts to encourage Malay participation in business and industry had taken the following measures: (1) Providing assistance to Malays in their efforts to secure license permits and the like from Government Departments; (2) Providing advice and guidance to Malay businessmen in matters pertaining to Government rules and regulations and the require- ments that they should comply with; (3) Providing encouragement to Malays and Malay companies to participate in business and find- ing markets for them; (4) Providing assistance to Malays who are looking for jobs in commerce and industry; (5) Providing technical training for Malay contractors in Class "F" and "EX" in order to equip them with technical know-how in carrying out their contractual works; and (6) Generally to find ways and means of getting more and more Malays to set up business and industry. Since the transfer of the Malay Secretariat to MARA under the directive of the Minister of National and Rural Development, the Ministry of Commerce and Industry has ceased to carry out the functions referred to earlier. This Ministry, however, still continues to impose conditions on pioneer companies, so that reservations are made for Malays to be employed and to buy shares in these pioneer companies. It is not correct, Sir, to say that the Minister of Commerce and Industry is disclaiming responsibility over any matters concerning participa- tion of Bumiputras in business and industry. Although the functions of the Malay Secretariat have been transferred to MARA, this Ministry has expressed its willingness to work in close co- operation with MARA in looking after the interests of Malays in Commerce and Industry and in exploring the type of assistance that should be given to Malays in this field. This Ministry cannot agree more with the Honour- able Member's suggestion that it must adopt an attitude of collective respon- sibility and co-ordinated efforts with the Ministry of National and Rural Development in finding ways and means of improving the economic well being of the Bumiputras. Referring to the Honourable Mem- ber's statement on the batek factory in Butterworth, this Ministry has not given approval to any batek factory to be established anywhere in this country. However, this Ministry has given approval to a factory in Bukit Mertajam to manufacture woven, printed, dyed and bleached fabrics of cotton. In this company's application there was no mention of the proposal to manufacture fabrics of batek design. Had this Ministry known about such a proposal, this Ministry would certainly have prohibited the company from producing such fabrics. If this is found to be so, the Ministry would take active steps to correct the apparent misunderstanding on the part of the company. It is the policy of this Ministry not to allow the establishment of any industry that has been reserved to MARA.

I think the Honourable Member has got the wrong end of the stick; what I said is just the opposite. It is not the intention of this Ministry to give away any industry which is reserved for MARA. In this case, it is just the opposite effect that the Honourable Member is trying to impute. With regard to the Honourable Member's statement on corruption in the Ministry and poor public relations of the Ministry, it would be appreciated if the Honourable Member could bring to my attention any specific case he has in mind so that I can initiate appropriate action in the matter.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya akan chuba menjawab masaalah yang di-bangkitkan oleh Ahli Yang Ber- hormat di-Dewan ini. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu Sela- tan meminta Kementerian Pelajaran menubohkan lebeh banyak lagi Pusat Perguruan Menengah untok meninggi- kan mutu pelajaran ra'ayat. Bahagian Latehan Guru Kementerian Pelajaran telah menubohkan 30 Pusat Latehan Daerah dan 6 Maktab Perguruan Menengah untok melateh guru bagi tingkatan rendah di-sekolah mene- ngah. Bersama-nya ada lebeh kurang 3,000 guru yang telah di-lateh di- maktab itu pada tiap tahun dan apabila mereka lulus mereka akan memainkan peranan masing² untok memelihara dan membaiki lagi mutu pelajaran di-tingkatan rendah di- sekolah kita. Ranchangan pada masa ini ia-lah untok membena dua buah lagi maktab latehan baharu dalam Ranchangan Malaysia Yang Pertama saperti mengadakan lebeh banyak tempat maktab yang telah sedia ada itu. Sa-lain daripada itu dengan meng- adakan tempat tinggal maktab Perguruan Menengah kapada penun- tut. Sa-lama satu tahun sahaja, maka bilangan penuntut2 yang masok boleh berganda dan dengan jalan yang demi- kian bilangan guru yang berkelayakan untok mengajar di-tingkatan rendah di-sekolah menengah pun boleh ber- tambah lagi. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Melaka Selatan berkata tidak puas hati dengan layanan kapada penuntut2 yang mogok di-Sekolah Menengah Pertukangan Johor Bahru. Pada pendapat-nya sam- butan penuntut2 itu ada-lah sebab yang besar. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Johor Bahru Timor berkata bagitu juga. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Kemen- terian Pelajaran telah membuat penyelidekan sa-penoh-nya berkenaan mogok itu dan membuat keputusan bahawa kebanyakan daripada per- mintaan penuntut2 itu ada-lah kechil sahaja dan tidak patut melibatkan mogok. Guru Besar sekolah itu telah mengambil tindakan untok memenohi sa-paroh daripada tuntutan murid itu, tetapi murid tidak sabar dan me- nuntut permintaan mereka di-penohi dengan serta-merta. Kementerian Pelajaran berpendapat bahawa tun- tutan supaya permintaan itu di- penohkan ada-lah tidak berpatutan. Lembaga Pengelola Sekolah telah membuat surat pada hari itu juga dan memberi jaminan kapada murid sa- kalian ia-itu permintaan yang besar akan di-pereksa dan uruskan, jika boleh, dalam masa yang sa-singkat- nya. Meski pun telah di-beri jaminan murid itu telah memileh mogok walau pun permintaan mereka telah di-luluskan. Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Melaka Selatan juga meminta Kemen- terian Pelajaran menubohkan sa-buah Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan ting- katan enam saperti Sekolah Alam Shah Selangor di-Melaka sa-bagai satu langkah persediaan bagi tahun 1967 apabila Bahasa Kebangsaan menjadi bahasa rasmi yang tunggal. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berhubong perkara itu penubohan Sekolah Mene- ngah Kebangsaan tingkatan enam di- Melaka, Kementerian saya ada-lah mengambil ingatan tentang chadangan Yang Berhormat itu. Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu memandangkan pada ke- putusan Kerajaan baharu ini untok mengi'tiraf ijazah dan beliau merayu supaya pertimbangan di-berikan juga untok mengi'tiraf ijazah University Kaherah di-negeri Timor Tengah. Perkara mengi'tirafkan ijazah luar negeri ada-lah tanggong-jawab jawatan- kuasa tetap, berlainan kelulusan dari luar negeri dan di-bawah pentadbiran Pejabat Perjawatan Persekutuan. Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Kuala Kangsar yang berkata oleh kerana kana yang miskin di- kampong di-dalam umor melanjutkan pelajaran mereka khas-nya yang datang daripada keluarga besar, sunggoh pun ada yang di-beri biasiswa akan tetapi mereka maseh memerlukan wang untok perbelanjaan sa-lain daripada wang saku. Masaalah ini ada-lah di- hadapi di-seluroh negeri yang hanya ibu bapa itu sahaja yang boleh menerangkan-nya. Mereka terpaksa membuat pembayaran saperti bayaran sukan, bayaran permainan dan lain lagi yang di-kenakan oleh sekolah. Beliau berseru kapada Kerajaan untok menghapuskan bayaran ini. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, memandang- kan kapada ranchangan kemajuan pelajaran yang sedang berjalan dengan pesat-nya, dan juga masaalah ke- wangan yang terlibat, maka tidak-lah dapat di-beri pertimbangan untok menghapuskan bayaran sukan, per- mainan, dan lain lagi pada masa ini. Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Johor Bahru Timor yang berkata Sekolah Mohammed Khir Johari di- Johor Bahru yang mempunyai lebeh kurang dua ribu orang murid ada-lah menghadapi banyak kekurangan sa- perti kekurangan perkakas, alat pela- jaran, dan padang permainan. Rayuan telah di-buat kapada Kementerian Pelajaran. Perkara itu, Tuan Yang di- Pertua, Kementerian saya telah pun mengambil ingatan untok di-jalankan tindakan. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Member for Ipoh has stated that he visited Formosa and met some Malay- sian students studying in centres of higher learning there. The Honourable Member asked whether the Govern- ment will agree to consider the degrees obtained by such students in Taiwan and whether they will be recognised by the Government. Mr Speaker, Sir, the question of recognition of foreign degree is a responsibility of the Standing Committee on the Evaluation of Foreign Qualifications, which is under the administration of the F.E.O.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya hendak bertanya kapada Timbalan Perdana Menteri, tidak sampai sa-minit pun kalau Tuan Yang di-Pertua benarkan. Hendak tumpang bertanya kapada Yang Berhormat ini tidak keluar lagi. Sa-minit sahaja saya hendak meminta penjelasan.

Ada satu benda yang saya hendak bertanya-yang tidak puas hati. Tidak sampai sa-minit, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ia-itu saya hendak bertanya dalam bahasa Inggeris bagi Menteri kita ini lebeh faham lagi ia-itu, "Does Tun Haji Abdul Razak really believe that our Government, representing a poli- tical compromise between landed and business interest like that of Alliance Government, can be expected to design and to execute a set of progressive measures to better the "not" and the "have-nots"?

Jadi kena tambah sa-minit lagi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya minta sa-minit sahaja tadi. Jadi yang saya tidak dapat hendak memahami uchapan Timbalan Perdana Menteri kita tadi-saya menjunjong tinggi dia ini-dalam penerangan dia tadi, saya tidak dapat hendak mengam- bil kesimpulan, ada-kah Yang Amat Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri ini betul perchaya bahawa sa-buah Kerajaan, sa-bagaimana Kerajaan Peri- katan ini yang mewakili tolak ansor politik-nya di-antara tuan tanah dan tuan2 yang mempunyai business dapat benar membuat satu ranchangan dan menjalankan-nya untok meninggikan taraf hidup ra'ayat jelata.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- "That this House resolves that in accord- ance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub-section (2) of section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, 1952, the Customs Duties (Amendment) (No. 3) Order, 1966, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 43 of 1966 be confirmed." The purpose of this Order is to amend the tariff classification of motor vehicles in order to meet the requirements of the Policy Statement on Motor Assem- bly announced earlier this year by the Honourable the Minister of Commerce and Industry. The old classification distinguished between old and new vehicles. In the Policy Statement referred to, it is stated that import duties on completely built up and semi knocked down vehicle will be imposed within 18 months from the date of the announcement. The present amendment to the Customs Duty Order will enable the imposition of such duty when the time comes. The Policy Statement also mentioned that with immediate effect quantitive restrictions will be imposed on the importation of completely built-up vehicles. The Prohibition of Import Order which came into effect simul- taneously with the announcement of the Statement provide for this. How- ever, no legal basis exists as to what is the difference between a semi knocked down, a completely knocked down and a completely built up vehicle. The Order before the House provides for such a basis. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub-section (2) of section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, 1952, the Customs Duties (Amend- ment) (No. 4) Order, 1966, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 44 of 1966 be confirmed. The Order before the House, is an attempt to provide domestic manu- facturers of plastic advertising materials with additional protection. Hitherto, such materials were only dutiable if they advertised goods of Malaysian origin. This left an important part of the market for plastic advertising materials unprotected. Advertising materials for imported goods are in no way different from those for goods of Malaysian origin, and there is no reason why domestic manufacturers of such materials should lose out to similar manufacturers elsewhere. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek clarification from the Honour- able Minister of Finance on the "Classi- fication and description of advertising articles of plastic materials not else- where specified or included." Accor- ding to the explanation given, it was to boost the local manufacturers and to provide them with protection where it was not already given. Sir, I need clarification on whether it covers arti- cles or components for the manu- facturing of these finished advertising products, or does it cover certain advertising articles that could not be manufactured locally because the manufacturers may not have the means or the technical know-how to produce such articles or the local manufacturers may find it not profitable enough to produce such articles. I know of some technical advertising articles used by the pharmaceutical firms-such as, plastic hearts, kidneys, and other organs for distribution among the doctors to help the doctors in explaining to their patients. There are many other items which perhaps we may not be able to produce for the reasons given by me. Another point I would like to stress, Sir, taking advantage of this Statute Paper No. 44-here the Code Number is 893 207-2-is that perhaps code classifications have been too general and are not specific to the items which are intended to be covered. For example, I would like to take a Code Number 200157 (b). Now this code classification was perhaps originally intended to cover by-products of rice- meehoon, or some other product. Unfortunately it now includes locally made beans preserves and dried beans sticks. These are foodstuffs being produced locally in various prepared forms for the vegetarians and the non- Muslims. These products are made from beans, and the raw material beans, is exempted from duty, both in Penang and the mainland, and the duty im- posed had caused more inconvenience than the advantage obtained from the prevention of the finished product from competing against the local manu- facturers. These are not mass produced; these are foodstuffs and the bulk make it non-profitable and there is also inconvenience to transport these dried beans sticks to the mainland. These inconveniences have caused a lot of local factories to close down and many families have been affected, and I only request the Honourable Minister to find ways and means to re-classify these items so as to allow this locally produced foodstuff from being exempted. Perhaps as I said it was not intentionally roped in. So I would like to request the Honourable Minister of Finance to reconsider the classification of this product. Talking on code number specifica- tions again, according to what the Parliamentary Secretary has just men- tioned, the tariff imposed is a form of protection for local manufacturers. I know of a certain item in which the classification also ropes in articles, perhaps it was not intended to, and it is not being produced by manufacturers or factories under pioneer status. For example, I know of locally manu- factured collapsible steel doors, grills, metal window frames, sky light frames and other parts of steel structures produced from duty-free mild steel bars and angle irons. Sir, most of these products are not produced in mass. They are produced according to the designs and the requirements of the architects. Therefore, such items are made of duty-free material in the main- land but they are not mass produced but are made to suit the designs of the various architects to suit the require- ments of their clients. So it does not constitute a finished product from manufacturers, such as the metal window frames. So, if a protection which is meant to cover the metal window frames ropes in items that are manufactured to suit the requirements of the architects and the owners of houses who want specific designs that would be denying the people of having a free choice of products and also put a barrier on the people of the island of Penang from earning a living. There- fore, I would like to request the Honourable Minister of Finance to reclassify and include these two items for exclusion from tariff, to allow them to come into the mainland, exempted from duties. I am sure this will help the industries in Penang as they are non-competitors of the articles as defined in the protective tariff. I would like to say again perhaps they are being roped in unintentially and I request for reconsideration. Thank you, Sir.

Mr Spea- ker, Sir, I beg to move, That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub-section (3) of section 8 of the Sabah Customs Ordinance (Cap. 33), the Customs Duties (Sabah) (Amendment) Order, 1966, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 45 of 1966 be confirmed. It was announced in the 1965 Budget Speech that a flat rate of 20 per cent on fish and other marine animals in air-tight containers would be imposed with immediate effect. This group of commodities includes sardines, herrings, brislings and pilchards, and the duty imposed apply also to Sabah and Sarawak except that in the case of sardines in these two States, only a 10 per cent duty was imposed on the grounds that this is a popular food for the lower income group. It has become apparent, however, that there is no scientific basis for any distinction to be drawn between sardines and pilchards, the sardines being the young stage of the pilchards. In such circumstances a different rate of duty in Sabah and Sarawak on basically the same type of fish can lead to confusion and evasion. To forestall this eventuality, the duty on pilchards and herrings was also reduced to 10 per cent in Sabah and Sarawak. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Spea- ker, Sir, I beg to move, That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub-section (3) of section 8 of the Sabah Customs Ordinance (Cap. 33), the Customs Duties (Sabah) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order, 1966, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 47 of 1966 be confirmed. The Customs Duties (Sabah) (Amend- ment) (No. 2) Order, 1966 in effect abolished the Commonwealth pre- ference applicable to the enamelware classified under Tariff Code 697211 in Sabah. Prior to the making of this Order enamelware was dutiable at 7 per cent preferential and 15 per cent full in Sabah. The low duty applicable to imports from Commonwealth sources virtually made the Sabah market on enamelware closed to the domestic pro- ducts. The situation was carefully studied and the Government was satis- fied that the proper course of action to take would be to raise the level of duty applicable to Commonwealth imports to that applicable to the non-Common- wealth imports. The abolishment of the Commonwealth margin made all ena- melware imported into Sabah dutiable at 15 per cent. The Government is satisfied that at this rate of duty the domestic manufacturer should be able to sell his goods in Sabah. As a com- parison, Honourable Members may wish to note that enamelware attracts a duty of 15 per cent (full and prefer- ential) in Sarawak and 50 per cent (full and preferential) in the States of Malaya. Sir, I beg to move.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dapat- kah pehak Menteri kita memberi jaminan bahawa dengan mengubah Undang ini, meminda Undang ini, maka chukai yang di-kenakan kapada barang yang kita import daripada luar negeri, sama ada Commonwealth atau pun sa-bagai-nya, betul tidak menyentoh kedudokan barang yang di-keluarkan di-Sabah, sebab kalau sa-kira-nya sa-mata menaikkan chukai tetapi barang yang kita keluarkan di- Sabah itu sendiri mutu-nya rendah, maka ra'ayat maseh juga berhajat kapada barang dari luar negeri. Jadi, dapat-kah Menteri kita ini memberi jaminan dalam perkara ini.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, perkara menen- tukan harga sama tentu-lah berdasarkan sama quality tetapi yang saya tanya tadi ada-kah Kerajaan dapat menjamin bahawa Kerajaan boleh meninggikan mutu pengeluaran barang-itu yang saya tanya.

Mr Spea- ker, Sir, I beg to move, That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub-section (3) of section 8 of the Sarawak Customs Ordinance (Cap. 26) the Customs (Import and Export) Duties (Amendment) Order, 1966, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 46 of 1966 be confirmed. It was announced in the 1965 Budget Speech that a flat rate of 20 per cent on fish and other marine animals in air-tight containers would be imposed with immediate effect. This group of commodities includes sardines, her- rings, brislings and pilchards and the duty imposed applied also to Sabah and Sarawak except that in the case of sardines in these two States only a 10 per cent duty was imposed on the grounds that this is a popular food for the lower income group. It has become apparent, however, that there is no scientific basis for any distinction to be drawn between sardines and pilchards, the sardines being the young stage of the pilchards. In such circum- stances a different rate of duty in Sabah and Sarawak on basically the same type of fish can lead to confusion and evasion. To forestall this eventuality the duty on pilchards and herrings was also reduced to 10 per cent in Sabah and Sarawak. Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tujuan meminda Undang ini dalam Motion yang baru ini sama-lah juga dengan tujuan yang ada di-dalam Motion yang baru lepas ini. Di-dalam penerangan yang di-beri oleh Menteri tadi dan juga oleh Menteri yang baru sa-kejap ini kata-nya chukai yang akan di-kenakan itu berbeza dengan Sabah ia-itu di-Sarawak 20 per cent di-kenakan pada barang saperti sardin dan sa-bagai-nya dan barang ini merupakan barang popular ia-itu yang di-hajat sangat oleh orang ber- pendapatan kechil-lower income group. Jadi, dengan menaikkan chukai lebeh daripada Sabah ia-itu sampai 20 per cent, dengan sendiri-nya barang itu akan menjadi mahal. Jadi, ini menu- njokkan satu chara pindaan yang memberatkan lagi ra'ayat dan saya sifatkan Motion ini sa-bagai pepatah Melayu Mengatakan: "Hidong di- chium, pipi di-gigit", "Kissing the nose, biting the cheek" (Ketawa) Jadi, saya harap-lah Menteri ini, pehak Menteri ini, memberi penjelasan di- atas apa-kah effect atau kesan menaik- kan chukai ini ka-atas ra'ayat jelata.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in moving the motion standing in my name, I would like to draw the attention of the Honourable Members to a slight omission, and that is, before the names No. (3) to No. (8) in the motion, the prefix "The Honour- able" should be inserted. In other words, it will read: "The Honourable Tuan Mohd. Zahir bin Ismail. The Honourable Dr Awang bin Hassan. The Honourable Tuan S. Y. Chan. The Honourable Tuan Abu Bakar bin Hamzah. The Honourable Datu Ganie Gilong. The Honourable Dato' S. P. Seenivasa- gam." Subject to this slight amendment, Sir, I beg to move: That a Select Committee comprising the following Members be appointed to consider the Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, 1966, and to make recommendations thereon

1. The Honourable Minister of Home Affairs and Justice (Tun Dr Ismail bin Dato' Haji Abdul Rahman) (Chairman). 2. The Honourable Minister of Lands and Mines (Tuan Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub). 3. The Honourable Tuan Mohd. Zahir bin Ismail. 4, The Honourable Dr Awang bin Hassan. 5. The Honourable Tuan S. Y. Chan. 6. The Honourable Tuan Abu Bakar bin Hamzah. 7. The Honourable Datu Ganie Gilong. 8. The Honourable Dato' S. P. Seeniva- sagam. Sir, it may be recalled that this House on 3rd June, 1965, after the second reading of the Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, resolved that the Bill be committed to a Select Committee. The Standing Orders of this House provide that a Bill may be committed to a Select Committee after it has been given a second reading (Standing Order 54). However, under Standing Orders 55 (1), a Committee to which a Bill is so committed shall not debate the principle of the Bill but only its details. The effect of this provision, as explained in Erskine May's Parlia- mentary Procedure, is that the Com- mittee has no power to make any amendment which, in effect, will negative the principles of the Bill. Its functions are, therefore, limited merely to amendments affecting the details of this Bill. On this ground, the Select Committee resolved that it would not proceed further with the consideration of this Bill. The Government now proposes to bring up this Bill again during this session and to commit it to a Select Committee after it has been read the first time. The Standing Orders of this House do not expressly provide for the committal of a Bill to a Select Committee after the first reading. Standing Order 48 provides that when a Bill has been read the first time, it shall stand for a second reading at the next or a subsequent sitting of the House. It is submitted, however, that it is possible for the Bill to be committed to a Select Committee after the first reading by applying the provisions of Standing Orders relating to Special Select Committees (Standing Orders 81 to 88) and in particular Standing Order 83 (4) provides that, and I quote: "The deliberations of a Select Committee shall be confined to the matter referred to it by the House and any extension or limitation thereof made by the House, and, in the case of a Select Committee on a Bill, to the Bill committed to it and relevant amendments." To invoke the said provisions, it will be necessary for a notice of a motion to be submitted to Parliament and for the motion to be thrown for debate after it has been moved and thereafter put to the House for adoption. Sir, the proposed provisions of the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) Bill, 1966, contain, among other things, the introduction of a new procedure relating to committal for trial by the High Court and under this new procedure the practice of holding pre- liminary inquiries in respect of cases which are to be tried by the Court of a Judge is dispensed with. You will recall that in 1958 the Government appointed a Committee under the Chairmanship of the then Attorney- General "to examine the system of preliminary enquiries as laid down in the Criminal Procedure Code with a view to recommending whether any modifications are required or whether any alternative procedure for the recording of witness's statements for the purpose of trials in the High Court might, with advantage, be adopted." Having considered both the advantages and the disadvantages of the present system, the Committee concluded that the present system should be altered so as to retain preliminary enquiries only in respect of very serious cases such as murder. Since the Report of the Committee, however, it has been considered that all cases which are to be tried before the Court of a Judge, including murder, should be committed to the High Court without there being held a preliminary enquiry, but that instead of such enquiry there should be adopted a procedure whereby, upon an application being made by the Public Prosecutor in that behalf, the Magistrate shall be empowered to commit an accused person for trial in the High Court; and upon such com- mittal, the Magistrate shall require the accused persons to give orally or in writing a list of the names and, so far as practicable, the addresses of the persons whom the accused person wishes to summon to give evidence on his trial. Not less than 14 clear days before the date fixed for the trial, the Public Prosecutor is to furnish to the accused person a copy of the statement of each witness whom the prosecution proposes to call at the trial, and such statement shall contain the summary of evidence the witness will give in Court. The proposed provisions of the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) Bill, 1966 also include proposed amend- ments to the Criminal Procedure Code applicable to the former Straits Settle- ments, namely, Penang and Malacca. Most of these proposed provisions are for the purpose of unifying the pro- visions of the Criminal Procedure Code of the two States with the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Code applicable to the remaining States of Malaya. In particular, section 189 of the Criminal Procedure Code in force in Penang and Malacca will be substituted by a provision that jury trials shall only be required where the punishment which may be imposed in death. This follows the practice now existing under the Criminal Procedure Code now in force in the other States of Malaya. The proposed provisions in the Bill relating to an amendment to the Criminal Procedure Code appli- cable to Penang and Malacca will also seek to abolish inquests and to bring in the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Code of the other States with regard to enquiries of death. No substantial differences exists, and the proposed amendments will in fact promote uniformity. The only other proposed amend- ments, which involve any question of principle that I need say now, are the proposed provisions to amend both the Criminal Procedure Codes to make the offences of extortion "reportable" offences, that is to say, the public will, if the proposal is acceptable to the Committee, be legally bound to give information to the Police with regard to the offences of extortion. Then, there is also the provision in the present law that a person answering questions put orally to him by a Police officer making a police investigation, shall be bound to answer truly. However, such a person can choose not to answer at all. The pro- posed relevant provision in this Bill will require such person to answer all questions and to answer them truly. There are other proposed provisions contained in the Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, 1966 which do not involve any question of prin- ciple at all but which are merely con- sequential and about which I need not waste the time of the House. Finally, Sir, may I refer to an excerpt from Erskine May's Parlia- mentary Practice, 17th Edition, at page 669, which reads as follows "When a bill which has not been a second time is referred to the consideration of a Committee, the Committee does not go through the bill, clause by clause, but simply inquires into the merits of the bill, or takes the proposals contained in the bill into consideration in the same manner as propo- sals embodied in any other document. No report or recommendation of the Committee with regard to the bill can have any effect whatever by way of advancing the bill a stage in the House." Sir, I beg to move that the motion be put to the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I too wish to say that while there are obvious merits in this Bill, there are many innovations in this Bill which may or may not be controversial, and as such, I hope that when this Bill goes to the Select Committee the widest publicity will be given to this procedure of sending it to the Select Committee, so that not only those of the legal fraternity will make their representations to this Select Committee but others who are interested in the rule of law will have a chance to make representations.

Mr Spea- ker, Sir, I am afraid I was under a misapprehension, because I took it to mean that once a Bill has been sent to Select Committee this House would not be able to discuss the principles of the Bill, but if that is possible, then I have some points to raise. I am sorry because I was under a genuine mis- apprehension that the principles of the Bill could not be discussed here.

May I then, Sir, with your permission, just make two observations. I have in mind in particular, Sir, Clause 143, on page 5, "Statements of Witnesses to be supplied".- "Not less than fourteen clear days before the date fixed for the trial, the Public Prose- cutor shall furnish to the accused person a copy of a statement of each witness whom it is proposed to call at the trial setting out the substance of the evidence such witness will give." Sir, the present procedure is that the witnesses for the prosecution tender oral evidence in the Magistrate's Court during the preliminary enquiry and the evidence is recorded by the Magistrate. The Council for the accused is given an opportunity to cross-examine the prosecution witnesses after tendering their evidence in the Court and this, I would submit, has stood the test of time. This is now being replaced by a system where not less than 14 clear days before the date fixed for the trial, the Public Prose- cutor furnishes the accused person a copy of a statement of each prosecution witness, and I refer to Sections 143 and 144 on page 5 again. This, Sir, might lead to serious abuse, since the state- ments of these prosecution witnesses would have been taken by police officers at police premises and there is no guarantee that this proposed statements are recorded with an emphasis on the elements of truth. The new procedure, in effect, Sir, is another move to conduct the preliminary enquiry but not before a magistrate but at a police station and without the safeguards in the present system of preliminary enquiry where the witnesses come to the open court and tender oral evidence and are sub- jected to cross-examination. The explanatory statement in the Bill while giving the reason for the change states that the present system of preliminary enquiry is cumbersome and time wast- ing. Sir, we might submit that the law itself is so. One should not try to save time or streamline the procedure where criminal offences are involved, as there is a danger of sacrificing justice in the name of saving time and in the name of alleviating or stream- lining cumbersome procedures. When a man's reputation or life is at stake, time and lengthy procedures are of little importance. Our system of justice is based on the Commonwealth system, the British system which has for its axiom, Sir, that a criminal may escape the noose but that it will not permit an innocent man to be hanged. Another reason given in the ex- planatory statement is that the new procedures will relieve the magistrates of their recording work, to enable them to deal with the increasing number of cases which come before them, and I would suggest, Sir, that the remedy is not in the abolition of the preliminary enquiry but in the recruitment of more Magistrates. Thank you, Sir.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pada dasar-nya saya bersetuju dengan pehak Kerajaan supaya di-adakan sistem yang di- pinda daripada satu masa ka-satu masa sa-bagaimana Bill yang di- kemukakan ini, tetapi hendak turut juga berchakap berkenaan dengan chara mengambil statement daripada orang salah. Memang pengalaman ra'ayat amat-lah sukar hendak memberi statement dengan berseh jiwa-nya kapada sa-orang Pegawai Polis sa-lain daripada yang memberi statement kapada Hakim sendiri. Jadi waktu dia menghadapi Pegawai Polis dia berasa berlainan fasal dia tidak dapat mem- beri statement dengan sa-penoh ke- hendak-nya. Hal ini berlaku juga-lah kalau saya mithalkan, kalau saya hendak memberi statement kerana hendak mendapatkan wang bantuan daripada Menteri Kebajikan Mashara- kat dengan memberi statement nasib saya hendak di-bawa berhadapan dengan Menteri Hal Ehwal Dalam Negeri. Jadi ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak dapat hendak bersetuju bahawa hendak di-pindahkan penyia- satan yang pertama itu kapada Polis dengan alasan hendak memberi peluang kapada Magistrate kerja yang lain, tetapi saya lebeh suka di-adakan orang yang ketiga. Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Bungsar dan Batu menchadangkan supaya di-kekalkan juga ia-itu Magis- trate itu sendiri menchatitkan kenya- taan itu, tetapi saya lebeh suka kalau Kerajaan kita dapat mengadakan satu pehak lain yang bukan Magistrate dan bukan Polis untok menchatitkan kenyataan itu, dengan sharat orang itu juga mempunyai kelayakan dalam urusan undang. Jadi orang yang hendak memberi statement tentu-lah tidak merasa takut dengan uniform dan tidak juga merasa takut dengan Hakim yang di-atas kerusi dan saya perchaya statement yang di-buat bagitu lebeh menolong lagi kapada Hakim yang akan menyiasat.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya memohon izin menchadangkan bahawa Rang Undang Kumpulan Wang Yayasan Tunku Abdul Rahman di-bacha bagi kali yang kedua. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tujuan Rang Undang ini ia-lah untok menubohkan satu Yayasan bagi menghormati Per- dana Menteri kita dan bagi mengada- kan biasiswa dan bantuan pelajaran kapada ra'ayat negeri ini. Bagi meng- hormati Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri kita, maka Yayasan ini di-namakan dengan nama beliau. Chadangan hendak menubohkan Ya- yasan ini telah di-datangkan oleh Enche' Mohammad bin Jamil, Penga- rah Pertanian bagi Negeri Tanah Melayu. Yayasan ini di-chadangkan sa-bagai satu chendera mata yang kechil tetapi berpanjangan bagi mengenang dan menjunjong tinggi jasa dan perkhidmatan Perdana Men- teri kita bagi mendapatkan kemerde- kaan Tanah Melayu dahulu dan me- mimpin negara dan, sekarang ini Malaysia, melalui berbagai2 rintangan dan pencherobohan ka-arah per- paduan, Kema'amoran dan kebahgiaan. Yayasan ini di-maksudkan untok men- jadi satu galakan semangat kapada keturunan masa hadapan untok meninggikan perpaduan dan ke- ma'amoran negeri ini. Enche' Mohammad bin Jamil telah menyampaikan chadangan-nya itu kapada Enche' Melan bin Abdullah, Penyunting surat khabar Utusan Melayu. Surat khabar itu telah menaja dan melancharkan Yayasan itu pada hari jadi yang ke-62 bagi Perdana Menteri kita ia-itu pada 8hb Februari, 1965. Yayasan itu telah mendapat sambutan yang baik daripada pehak orang ramai dan juga Kerajaan Negeri. Kerajaan Negeri Pahang, mithal-nya, telah menderma sa-banyak $40,000 dan telah berjanji untok menderma lagi. Kerajaan Trengganu telah juga berjanji untok memberi derma Tabong Yayasan itu, kalau saya tidak salah, sa-banyak $250,000 yang telah di-janjikan. Memandangkan kapada sambutan yang sangat baik yang di-beri kapada Yayasan itu dan untok membolehkan Yayasan itu bergerak dengan lichin- nya, Kerajaan berpendapat elok-lah Yayasan itu di-tubohkan di-bawah satu undang Parlimen. Pehak yang telah mengeshorkan Yayasan itu telah pun bersetuju dengan chadangan ini. Pada mula-nya Yayasan ini telah di- ranchangkan untok memberi bantuan kapada orang Melayu sahaja, dalam lapangan pelajaran terutama sa-kali dalam lapangan professional dan technical. Penjajah Yayasan ini menye- dari bahawa orang Melayu ada-lah jauh ketinggalan dalam lapangan pro- fessional dan technical dan dengan tujuan hendak menggalakkan dan membantu orang Melayu bagi men- chapai pelajaran tinggi, maka mereka telah mengusahakan penubohan Yaya- san ini. Tetapi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Kerajaan berpendapat bahawa satu Yayasan yang mengambil nama pe- mimpin negara yang juga di-gelar Bapa Kemerdekaan dan Bapa Malaysia, patut-lah di-bukakan pintu-nya kapada semua ra'ayat jelata negeri ini dengan tidak memandang keturunan mereka itu. Dengan sebab itu Yayasan yang akan di-tubohkan oleh undang ini ada-lah terbuka kapada semua ra'ayat jelata negeri Malaysia ini. Kerajaan berharap supaya Yayasan ini akan dapat sambutan yang baik daripada semua pehak. Rang Undang ini bertujuan hendak menubohkan satu kumpulan wang yang akan di-uruskan oleh satu Lembaga Amanah yang mengandongi ahli yang di-lantek oleh Menteri Pelajaran dan dua orang wakil Kementerian Pelajaran dan Per- bendaharaan. Pengerusi Lembaga itu akan di-lantek oleh Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di- Pertuan Agong. Wang Kumpulan itu akan di-gunakan bagi mengadakan biasiswa dan berbagai2 bantuan pela- jaran kapada mereka yang memerlu- kan bantuan. Kerajaan berharap Kumpulan Wang itu akan dapat me- mainkan peranan-nya dalam lapangan pelajaran terutama sa-kali dalam lapangan pelajaran tinggi. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mohon menchadangkan.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka-lah meng- ambil peluang sadikit di-sini mengu- chapkan sa-tinggi2 tahniah kapada Kerajaan, kerana membuatkan undang berkenaan dengan Yayasan Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Abdul Rahman ini kerana dengan ada-nya Yayasan ini dan segala susunan dan atorkan bagaimana hendak menjalankan-nya, maka berma'ana-lah ia-itu nama yang Teramat Mulia itu akan berpanjangan sa-lagi ada-lah Yayasan ini berjalan barangkali 100 tahun, 200 tahun atau 300 tahun lagi. Demikian juga, saya suka hendak memberikan tahniah saya kapada Enche' Mohammad bin Jamil, yang telah memula menjalankan segala urusan dan memerahkan tenaga-nya memajukan kerana mendirikan Yaya- san Tunku Abdul Rahman ini. Maka tidak boleh-lah di-nafikan bahawa sa- nya ia-itu daripada segi yang Teramat Mulia Tunku sendiri dan juga dari- pada segi orang di-dalam negeri ini bagaimana-kah banyak faedah-nya yang akan di-dapati daripada ada-nya Yayasan Tunku Abdul Rahman ini. Kerana daripada segi Tunku tadi, sudah-lah saya katakan, tetapi dari- pada segi orang yang mempunyai anak yang ta' lalu membiayaï segala bayaran untok membolehkan anak itu mendapat pelajaran yang tertinggi. maka ini satu daripada jalan-nya maka anak itu boleh mendapat pelajaran yang tinggi. Walau bagai- mana pun pada perasaan saya tidak- lah salah, sunggoh pun ada banyak biasiswa dan juga bursary yang di- adakan untok membantu anak muda kita laki dan perempuan supaya dapat mereka itu memanjangkan pelajaran- nya kapada perengkat yang tinggi, tetapi maseh ada juga anak itu yang tidak dapat masok, sebab sharat-nya bagi biasiswa dan juga bagi bursary itu sangat-lah ketat. Maka di-sini, juga saya faham dan juga mengerti ia-itu Yayasan ini juga akan di-adakan atorkan dan sharat, tetapi saya ber- harap ia-itu kalau-lah sa-kira-nya Lembaga Pentadbiran atau Board of Management yang akan di-lantek oleh Kerajaan menjalankan Yayasan ini di-serahkan, bagaimana kata sahabat saya di-Seberang tadi, ia-itu kapada Universiti, barangkali juga peng- gunaan atau kebajikan yang terdapat daripada Yayasan ini akan berkura- ngan dan ada-lah Universiti itu satu daripada institution atau pun badan yang memikirkan daripada segi Universiti sahaja. Kalau-lah sa-kira-nya ahli yang menjadi Lembaga Pengurus di-dalam Yayasan ini daripada Universiti itu saya setuju, tetapi kalau di-serahkan dengan buat di-jalankan oleh pegawai Universiti, saya berasa banyak yang tertinggal kerana pan- dangan Universiti itu sendiri tidak bagitu luas, ia akan memandang kapada penuntut2 yang ada di-dalam lengkongan Universiti itu juga dan juga dalam lengkongan universiti yang lain, Walhal-nya banyak dari- pada pemuda² pemudi kita di-sini ada yang berhajat dan berniat dan berhasrat tinggi hendak mengambil pelajaran tinggi bukan bahagian di- dalam Universiti yang ada di-dalam negeri ini tetapi, barangkali juga dalam Universiti yang berasingan dan lain chorak daripada Universiti yang ada. Jadi, buat kata sahabat saya tadi, universiti juga akan dapat dengan sa- benar menchari satu ukoran ia-itu satu peminta itu, ia-lah berkehendak dan bersesuai di-beri pertolongan dari- pada Yayasan ini. Tetapi rasa saya pada masa yang sudah satu daripada jentera Kerajaan sendiri ia-itu Kebaji- kan Masharakat kita boleh dengan ada pertolongan daripada mereka itu dapat menolong yang sharat kemiskinan atau pun kedzaifan itu boleh di-sahkan oleh Kementerian itu dan kaki-tangan- nya. Maka dengan itu saya berasa ia-itu ini-lah kali pertama yang kita meng- adakan Yayasan ia-itu bagi memberi terima kaseh kita serta menjunjong kaseh kapada Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku, tetapi perkara yang sa-macham ini belum pernah di-buat oleh orang2 bangsa lain, mithalan-nya ta' payah- lah saya sebut macham Lee Founda- tion di-Singapura, Ford Foundation, Hooper Foundation-macham founda- tion ada, tetapi ini-lah julong kali-nya yang Yayasan yang sa-macham ini di- dirikan di-dalam negara kita dan mengingatkan bukti dan juga jasa Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku kita. Maka dengan itu saya rasa tiap orang Melayu dan juga orang yang bukan Melayu di-dalam negeri ini kalau-lah sa-kira-nya tidak chukup dengan tapak tangan kita charikan nyiru berdo'a kapada Tuhan Rabbil-a-lamin mu- dahan Yayasan ini akan membawa kebajikan kapada kita semua. Dan saya perchaya macham mana yang di-katakan oleh sahabat saya di-sa- berang itu tadi ia-itu daripada sa-masa ka-samasa orang yang mendapat per- tolongan daripada Yayasan ini dengan sendiri-nya akan dapat keinsafan ia- itu dia terhutang budi kapada Yayasan itu sendiri dan akan dengan sa-berapa boleh membesarkan dan mengembang- kan Yayasan itu apabila dia mendapat ijazah-nya dan dapat menjalankan hal kehidupan-nya dengan menderma balek kapada Yayasan itu juga. Maka dengan itu saya kata bersama mari-lah kita sama berdo'a ka-hadzrat Tuhan memberi shukor ia-itu Yayasan ini telah pun terdiri pada hari ini. Terima kaseh.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun turut sama mengalukan kelulusan Rang Undang yang ada di-hadapan kita ini, sebab di-dalam maksud Rang Undang ini dan juga telah di-terangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri yang ber- kenaan tadi, sangat mulia tujuan-nya untok memberi bantuan kapada pe- lajar yang miskin yang berkebolehan dalam pelajaran ilmu yang melayak- kan gulongan cherdek pandai untok memberi faedah pada negara kita pada masa hadapan. Di-samping itu gemar saya menyampaikan tahniah kapada dua gulongan, pertama kapada Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Men- teri yang sudi menerima Yayasan ini di-namakan dengan Yayasan Tunku Abdul Rahman. Tidak-lah benar sa- bagaimana yang di-katakan oleh Ahli dari Bachok tadi hendak mengubah nama ini kalau boleh kapada Yayasan Ra'ayat sahaja. Atas Yayasan ini bukan sahaja orang Melayu yang menyokong orang yang bukan Melayu menyokong, termasok-lah orang2 PAS, chuma yang tidak mahu itu ia-lah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok sahaja. Yang kedua, gemar saya menyampai- kan tahniah kapada Enche' Mohamad bin Jamil serta Utusan Melayu yang menganjorkan Yayasan ini sa-hingga dapat sambutan daripada orang ramai dan dapat melonggokkan wang himpir $1 juta, kalau tidak salah ingatan saya, kalau salah saya, minta Yang Berhor- mat Menteri betulkan. Sa-lain daripada itu chuma saya hendak menarek perhatian dalam dasar 'am undang ini. Kalau boleh Rang Undang ini atau Yayasan ini di- lanjutkan ka-negeri Sabah dan Sara- wak, sebab saya perchaya tentu-lah dua buah Kerajaan ini akan memberi kerjasama atau memberi keperchayaan, malahan pula tidak kurang anak ra'ayat di-sana yang miskin yang patut di-beri bantuan dengan dasar Rang Undang ini. Yang kedua, saya nampak Rang Undang ini ada mempunyai Lembaga Amanah-nya. Saya mengshorkan supaya Lembaga ini tidak sahaja di- peringkat Pusat-nya, saya mensaran- kan supaya di-adakan di-peringkat Negeri, di-peringkat Daerah dan di- peringkat Mukim, sebab daripada ini dapat menyalorkan semua ra'ayat dan dapat di-sedari oleh ra'ayat bertapa kuat-nya tanggong-jawab anak mereka terhadap pelajaran. Saya menaroh ke- yakinan bagi pehak di-luar bandar akan memberi kerjasama kapada Yayasan ini. Kalau di-peringkat Pusat Lembaga-nya telah di-tubohkan sa- bagaimana yang di-sebutkan tadi, saya fikir di-peringkat negeri dan juga di- peringkat Daerah, di-peringkat Mukim boleh-lah di-pertanggong-jawabkan ka- pada pegawai kerajaan saperti Pegawai2 Daerah, Penghulu, Pengerusi Majlis Bandaran termasok ibu bapa dan guru kampong. Akhir-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mengharapkan Lembaga ini juga akan dapat sambutan dan akan dapat huloran derma daripada ahli yang dermawan, ahli jutawan sama ada ahli jutawan tempatan atau juga ahli jutawan yang menanam modal-nya di- negeri ini, sebab daripada pelajaran ini-lah juga yang akan menjamin eko- nomi atau kekayaan mereka itu. Dan satu masa akan datang bahawa Lem- baga ini bukan sahaja dengan mena- bongkan wang, tetapi akan memberi harta tetap yang berupa tanah dan rumah dan ini akan menjadi satu kenangan kapada jenerasi Malaysia pada masa akan datang dengan nama yang di-sebutkan Yayasan Tunku Abdul Rahman sa-bagai Bapa Kemer- dekaan atau pejuang kemerdekaan. Terima kaseh.

On a point of clarification Sir, may I ask the Hon- ourable Minister, from the explanatory note, it states quite clearly that "with the object of assisting poor students who have the ability but not the means of pursue higher education in the fields of medicine, law, the science and other professions." Is the Honourable Minis- ter wanting to open the doors wider to those in primary schools and secon- dary schools as well?

Tuan Pengerusi, oleh kerana saya menchadangkan tadi pada dasar-nya supaya Bill ini di-namakan "Ra'ayat Foundation" maka saya minta-lah dalam Clause ini perkataan "Tunku Abdul Rahman" di-mana yang dapat di-gantikan dengan "Ra'ayat".

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya memohon mengusulkan supaya Rang Undang Archive Negara, 1966, di-bacha bagi kali yang kedua. Jabatan Kerajaan menerima dan mengeluarkan banyak rekod tiap hari sa-tengah daripada-nya ada-lah amat tinggi nilai-nya bagi kepentingan pen- tadbiran masa ini dan masa hadapan, dari segi bokti tertulis atas dasar, hak2 kewajipan dan tugas2 Kerajaan dengan orang ramai dan negeri asing. Pendek kata rekod itu ada-lah meru- pakan ingatan Kerajaan, juga rekod itu besar nilai-nya dari segi kebu- dayaan bahkan rekod itu sama mustahak-nya saperti Tugu Peringatan, khazanah dan muzium dan sa-bagai- nya yang mana ke-semua-nya menjadi hak milek negara. Rekod ini merupa- kan bahan bagi penyelidekan tawarikh dan di-anggap oleh alhi tawarikh sa-bagai satu ukoran bagi kemajuan sa-sabuah negara. Oleh kerana rekod itu di-keluarkan oleh Kerajaan maka ia-nya di-anggap sa-bagai hak orang ramai dan usaha menjaga dan menye- lamatkan-nya ada-lah kewajipan orang ramai. Bagi menjalankan kewajipan ini-lah Kerajaan telah menubohkan Jabatan Archive pada satu masa di- panggil Public Record Office sa-lepas Merdeka dalam bulan Disember 1957. Dalam tempoh yang sengkat semenjak tarikh itu, Jabatan ini telah menchapai banyak pengalaman dalam bidang pe- nyelenggaraan rekod malahan banyak pelawat dari luar negeri telah memberi akuan bahawa Jabatan Archive kita ada-lah sa-tahu-nya Institution yang leng- kap penyelenggaraan-nya di-kawasan dunia sa-belah sini. Masa-nya telah tiba bagi Jabatan ini bertanggong-jawab bagi mengkuat kuasakan Undang Archive sa-bagai yang sudah yang di-lakukan banyak negara yang telah maju. Negeri Peranchis telah meluluskan Undang Archive-nya dalam tahun 1790, Britain dalam tahun 1838 dan banyak lagi negeri yang baru merdeka saperti Ceylon, Ghana, Nigeria, Tunisia. Tan- zania sudah mempunyai undang saperti itu. Tujuan besar Undang ini ada-lah bagi menentukan jagaan rapi dan penyelenggaraan semua rekod Kera- jaan dan, jika perlu, kemusnahan rekod yang di-anggap tidak bernilai dari segi kepentingan tawarikh dan negara. Rekod Kerajaan yang di-pileh bagi di-simpan sa-lama-nya ada-lah di-pindahkan kapada jagaan Pengarah Jabatan Archive. Memang sudah di- ketahu bahawa banyak rekod yang tidak ada ganti-nya telah kehilangan atau di-musnahkan atau di-churi sa- masa pemerentahan Jepun dan sa-kali sa-kala di-bawa keluar oleh pemeren- tahan penjajah pada masa yang lampau. Undang ini chuba mengelakkan dari- pada berulang-nya kejadian yang saperti itu. Peruntokan utama dalam Rang Undang ini ada-lah: (a) Menubohkan Jabatan Archive bagi seluroh Malaysia dan me- lantek sa-orang Pengarah dalam Jabatan ini oleh Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong dan menentu- kan tugas dan kewajipan. (b) Menubohkan Lembaga Penasihat bagi menasihat Pengarah. (c) Membolehkan pemindahan ka- pada Jabatan Archive rekod Kerajaan yang berusia lebeh dari- pada 25 tahun dan juga rekod yang di-dapati oleh Pengarah sesuai di-simpan. Dia meletakkan kewajipan kapada sa-siapa yang mempunyai rekod Kerajaan supaya di-hantarkan ka-Jabatan Archive jika di-minta oleh Pengarah, ini melarang pem- binasaan rekod Kerajaan dengan tidak persetujuan Pengarah. (d) Memberi kuasa kapada Pengarah bagi memusnahkan rekod Kera- jaan yang tidak mempunyai nilai yang berkekalan. (e) Membolehkan orang ramai meng- gunakan rekod Kerajaan dan yang berusia lebeh daripada 25 tahun untok kerja penyelidekan dan peruntokan bergantong ka- pada sharat yang di-kenakan sa- masa pemindahan rekod itu ka-atas negara oleh Jabatan Kerajaan. (f) Melarang pengambilan atau penghantaran rekod Kerajaan keluar daripada Malaysia. (g) Mengadakan denda kapada orang yang bersalah dari segi Undang ini sa-banyak $1,000 atau pun penjara sa-lama enam bulan atau denda dan penjara, dan (h) Membenarkan penubohan Jaba- tan Archives di-negeri dengan persetujuan Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong. Undang ini akan berkuat kuasa di- seluroh Malaysia dan kechuali bagi Sabah dan Sarawak sa-belum tertuboh Undang ini tidak berkuat kuasa di- Sabah dan Sarawak. Saya suka me- nyatakan kapada Dewan ini bahawa banyak persediaan telah di-buat dalam usaha mengadakan Undang ini. Banyak undang Archive negeri asing telah di-pereksa pendapat pakar Antara Bangsa dalam UNESCO dan International Council of Archive telah juga di-minta supaya membuat Rang Undang ini. Rang Undang ini telah juga di-kelilingkan kapada semua negeri dalam Malaysia dan pan- dangan mereka telah juga di-pertim- bangkan. Sa-panjang yang di-ketahu Rang Undang ini mengandongi segala dasar pentadbiran Archive dan yang di-fikirkan sesuai dan boleh di-guna- kan bagi kehendaki dan kedudokan negara itu. Dari itu saya harap Rang Undang ini mendapat sokongan penoh dalam Dewan ini.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka-lah memberi terima kaseh kapada Menteri yang mengemukakan Rang Undang ini dan saya juga hendak menguchap- kan dukachita kerana amat-lah terlewat Bill yang sa-macham ini di-kemukakan. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-sudah 10 tahun kita merdeka boleh jadi banyak- lah rekod kita yang sudah hilang atau pun di-churi dan baru-lah pada hari ini kita sedar. Tuan Yang di-Pertua. memang-lah boleh yang sa-macham ini amat ber- guna supaya rekod, atau pun ia-lah rekod bagi semua negeri ini dapat di- simpan dengan baik dan ini bukan sahaja untok hendak meniru negeri yang sudah maju, tetapi juga ia akan merupakan bahan sejarah dan bahan thesis bagi orang yang hendak mengkaji perkembangan sa-sabuah negeri. Ada dua tiga buah negeri-universiti yang saya temu, dalam lawatan saya baharu ini, mereka itu sedang mem- buat thesis hendak mengambil Degree M. A. dan juga doktor di-dalam pentadbiran di-Tanah Melayu, sebab chara pentadbiran di-Tanah Melayu ini mengikut system Inggeris, tetapi orang yang bekerja di-dalam negara kita ini terdiri daripada orang Asia dan berbagai2 keturunan pula. Jadi, orang itu amat-lah tertarek hati di- dalam perkara ini, tetapi saya tidak tahu-lah sama ada perkara ini telah di-hubongi dengan Kerajaan kita atau pun tidak, tetapi saya tidak dapat men- jawab, sebab saya tidak tahu, sama ada rekod yang sa-macham ini dengan chara terator di-simpankan. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-lain dari- pada itu apabila rekod ini terselamat, apabila besok-nya angkatan kita yang akan datang hendak melihat perkem- bangan negeri ini, maka dapat-lah mereka itu mengikuti rekod ini, ter- utama-nya Menteri kita yang dzalim, yang sombong-nya, yang keras-nya, yang baik-nya, yang makan suap, kalau ada, dapat-lah mereka itu membuat sejarah yang elok dan ini-lah yang saya menyokong Bill ini dan saya mengu- chapkan dukachita kerana terlalu lewat sangat di-kemukakan.

Terima kaseh atas pandangan Kedua yang Berhormat itu. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. Bill considered in Committee. (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 to 20 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill. Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the 28th of April, 1966, Mr D. E. Teale in an address to the United Planting Association is reported to have protested that the premature retire- ment of experienced and trained per- sonnel is economically unsound, and this has resulted in a rash of protests in the local Press. It is incredible that nine long years after independence a person of the standing of Mr. D. E. Teale should have the effrontery to warn against the speed and method of Malayanisation. What, may I ask, has the U.P.A.M. or Mr D. E. Teale done to train local people to take over from expatriates in the planting industry? If they are sincere in carrying out the policy of Malayanisation and if they had trained enough local people for managerial jobs in the planting industry, then there is no need for Mr D. E. Teale or his kind to try to impede the progress of Malayanisation. The fact is that the die-hards in the rubber industry have been half-hearted in training local people for higher jobs in the rubber industry and they are still recruiting expatriates, some of whom with no qualifications for managerial jobs in the rubber industry. Mr D. E. Teale and his kind would also have us believe that there is a kind of special talent required in the planting industry which expatriates possess in abundance and Malaysians cannot hope to acquire unless they undergo a very long, long period of tutelage in the industry. The fact is that there are Malaysians who are ade- quately qualified to take up managerial positions in the planting industry. Thus there is an increasing number of graduates qualifying from the Univer- sity of Malaya and from abroad. Quite a number of these often offer degree training in agriculture, and besides Malaysians are familiar with local customs and languages which the young expatriates have to struggle to learn. Let not Mr. D. E. Teale and the die-hards in the planting industry raise the bogey of speedy Malayanisation affecting the rubber industry adversely. Let them not behave like King Canute trying to resist the march of time. As one critic of Mr D. E. Teale, com- mented, the writing has been on the wall for a long time and Malayans can hardly be blamed if they exercise their franchise to make it legible. Let me also add that I, for one, do not advocate a 100 per cent all-out Malayanisation in the rubber industry. There should, and must be, a place for expatriates with suitable qualifications, particularly on the research side of the industry. In this field too if Malaysians are given the opportunity, they too will make good as can be seen by the appointment of a Malaysian to the directorship of the R.R.I. In conclusion, Mr Speaker, Sir, may I ask the Minister, on behalf of the youth of this country, to see that expatriates without qualifications are not smuggled into the planting industry and that Malaysians should be given every opportunity to take their rightful place in the rubber industry. Thank you.